In my subjective opinion, Vonnegut is not awfully good

ohh the irony :slight_smile:


I thought Starship Troopers II (The Movie) really sucked long and hard. Now I see previews for Starship Troopers III and I shiver.

Starship Troopers II Sucks!

Hi Wock,
Fascinating stuff! I had (of course) heard the term troll(ing) before, but never realized there was so much behind and about it.
And posting it here on this forum on this thread just goes to show that the pen truly is mightier than the sword. (The video, by the way, was, well, embarrassing doesn’t really seem enough to describe it… :open_mouth: :smiley: :blush: )

And Druid: what can I say? That too, is hitting it right on the head. (Am I feeding the troll now??) You guys rock.
You made me realize that I am prone to feeding the wrong wolf.
I now feel like a new man. A better man. I just hope I can continue having this feeling.
I do know that I feel it’s way more fun writing a positive response but tend to get hung up on the threads that make me want to write that negative one. And of course that doesn’t make you feel better, only worse.

So again,
thanks for those two responses/insights.


There’s a second AND third Starship Troopers???
I totally missed that.
Wock, I see you don’t mention the first one. Can I assume that you liked that one but not the other two?
It’s just that I’m in a sci-fi period now and crave movies. And I’m not that picky. I got “Serenity” a while back and although relatively lowbudget I still liked it.

the first SST made me wish for death. And I like that type of … dare I say stupid … scifi movie. I dare not consider viewing II or III. Otherwise I may single handedly attempt to use the Hadron collider to create a black hole large enough to consume all participants of the series.

On to talk of trolls. I prefer mine with green fuzzy hair that is as long as the unit’s circumference.

I would add a slightly different spin to troll behavior, pacification and focus. Sometimes we (yes I see myself as a troll) try to steer conversations to less offensive topics. Other times we see something in a statement that interests us so we “fret it out” (which is a craftsmen’s term). Ideally I (and the other members of the Troll^3 [henceforth the T^3] aka the +3) do this via humor and/or self deprecation (amongst the T^3) if a straight out query is in appropriate.

But that is just the T^3 and those like us.

Back to the previous suckage of Vonnegut. I find it interesting that (redirection alert) opinions are given such weight. To put it bluntly “who cares?” No one will die from this right? I personally hate strawberries. Who in their right mind would argue that I am wrong to hate them? Even if I get a group of fellow strawberry haters together and we start plastering the forum with anti strawberry posts, is it wrong of us to hate strawberries?

Of course not. Our use of the forum may be in appropriate, but our OPINION is valid. By restricting my right to an opinion you leave yourself open to the same restriction. So if druid and I happen to think that Vonnegut does NOT suck we can express ourselves with the same freedom that we allow others.

The difference, as I see it, is that (unless you are deeply religious and pushing it to the extreme) you are not dismissing or insulting someone’s life’s work (or in fact, dismissing that person entirely) by saying that “strawberries suck”. I don’t think anyone has a problem with people not liking a particular author. I think what they objected to is the claim that the person “sucks. Boringly”. There is a marked difference between saying “I didn’t like X” (or even “I thought X was drivel”) and stating (as fact, not opinion) that something “sucks”.

I have no opinion on Vonnegut since I haven’t read any of his books, I may well dislike them as well. But there are ways to communicate that without resorting to the infantile “he sucks”. That kind of argument sucks, and boringly so.

Since you consider it perfectly appropriate to dismiss someone’s work and life so flippantly, and to even offer yourself in direct comparison as someone who “lived as much” and “wrote that well” at 23, feel free to provide the supporting evidence of:
a) what you did at that age that you consider comparable to a concentration camp; and
b) a sample of your ‘superior’ writing from that time period.

Sadly, I think the posters here would treat your response with more respect than you afford others.


Well well I guess I must whip out the list.

Yup. This thread will be “The List’s” debut appearance on this forum!


Instead of getting angry or upset at someone’s elses opinion or flippant remark I savor the moment to use

[size=200]THE LIST[/size]

here goes!

Humor is the best offense in the universe.

Starship Troopers!

Starship Troopers 2: Hero of the Federation

Starship Troopers 3: Marauder

I did like the first one because of DIna Meyer. Butt kickin Chicks with big guns! :slight_smile: gets me every time. THe movie was lame, the script lame, and the production was lame. But that Dina Meyer sold me. :stuck_out_tongue:

The second one was nothing closely related tot he first one but rather a real low budget horror movie. If it was named and themed different then I would have liked it better but trying to make a Starship Troopers B horror flick was just lame. Didn;t even have any of the actors from the first movie.

The third one has Rico return? And they are really pusing the lame B look presentation with the “federation commercials”, etc?


As to the original topic. This thread was born as a critics review. The presentation was a little too informal when the suck word was used and I think that may have riled the feathers of a few readers in its blunt critical review of this Vonnegut dude.

Truthfully I do not even know who this guy is much less have I ever read his stuff. Maybe he is genius. Maybe he sucks? Maybe he has a pet frog that has pocket so he can shoot the snake.

It doesn’t really matter. What does matter is I finally got to use my LIST lol!

All in jest and fun!

Now I am a huge troll (+3). I am also a known thread hijacker, a big mispeller, grammar abuser, link spammer, and sometimes my satire is a little dry and can be offensive to some.

But in the end I am just a flying rodent who is making attempts at writing novels that would drive any editor mad and would make Red Pen makers salivate at the increase in sales!

I can only speak 3 languages.

Engrish and Slang
Southern Engrish

And I can Google with the best of them.

But I cannot say whether Vonnegut sucks or not because I have never read any of his work.

But I have read plenty of Louis L’Amour and let me tell you. That man could write!

Hmmm. I just realized.

I suck


I think you are correct in pointing out the glaring deficiencies of my argument using strawberries. You also help me make my point. No one is being killed. No one is being hurt (unless Vonnegut is reading the forum). It isn’t until we become extremists that we really need to consider condemn a publicly stated opinion no matter how poorly it was expressed.

Matt (second half),

Interesting take. I look forward to seeing a reply, but would ask you this, what if the experience is there? What if some of us think the writing holds up? Have we really resolved the issue?

Your last statement is true of many posters, but you may be on to something here.

You should be publicly flogged with Vic-ks collar and forced to drink beer only twice a day for a whole month for this blasphemy!

Dina Meyers + Big Guns + Space Ships + Doogie Houser + B Script and Graphics = Hollywood Mega Hit!

We are talking academy awards, Oscars! Film Festival Revivals and 1 hour episodes of VH1’s “Where Are They Now!”

That was like saying something like “Duck Tape won’t fix that.”

You clearly did not comprehend my post on each of us being allowed to have opinions. I did not say that the movie “sucks” or that the actors deserve to die, but that I wished for death. the implication being my death.

Stinking bird troll hybrid.

This … this is going to far. You now accuse duck tape of being inadequate! How dare you?! As you are well aware Duck Tape is used for emergency repairs for MILITARY aircraft. For you to suggest that it is inadequate for your needs is preposterous.

See this is how you troll.

Pigeon, meet you out back for a bear in 10.


[size=85]Now that was funny! Nice Trolling. Beer sounds good about now. hehehe[/size]

Anyone who thinks Vonnegut sucks should by impaled on a giant hook!

…I was going to write more but this piercing loud noise in my ear disrupts my train of thought, and my eyeglasses give me a headache.

hostile? maybe. it was such a waste of time. i probably should have put the book down much sooner than trying to finish it no matter what. i can’t say i learned my lesson with vonnegurt but he was definitely one of the memorable ones.

that’s hilarious.

no, wait. this is even better.

i’m going to sign off on this thread. most of what’s been said here has been mostly along the lines of “how dare you not like vonnegut?!” little of what i’ve read here has been educational, enlightening or insightful. or interesting. sorry guys. feel free to have at it without me.

Well, gee whiz guy. If the books have a plot, some discernible theme, characterization (vs. stream of consciousness impressions or reflections on one’s memory of summer camp) and a style that is coherent, then it really is just a battle of tastes. One author could be demonstrated to be better than another, and that would be a lengthy discussion. Unless, of course, you are pitting Jackie Collins against Dostoyevsky.

But if all you’ve got is Vonnegut sucks, then I think Vonnegut fans have every right to treat it flippantly.

I was just going through all your posts, flow, to see if there was any evidence therein, of ‘why’, you dislike KV with such a passion, but of course there isn`t any. I was jjust about to say something along the lines of: [i]"Well, gee whiz guy. If the books have a plot, some discernible theme, characterization (vs. stream of consciousness impressions or reflections on one’s memory of summer camp) and a style that is coherent, then it really is just a battle of tastes. One author could be demonstrated to be better than another, and that would be a lengthy discussion. Unless, of course, you are pitting Jackie Collins against Dostoyevsky.

But if all you’ve got is Vonnegut sucks, then I think Vonnegut fans have every right to treat it flippantly."[/i] But Bob`s just nipped in a said it better than I could. Cheers Bob :wink:

Take care flow, and watch out for the boredom…it sucks.

A better writer, and teacher, than I once wrote that learners fall into four categories:

Smart ones who work.
Smart ones who don’t.
Dumb ones who work.
Dumb ones who don’t.

So long, flow, and may your journey be full of endless surprise and diversion.

It was really too immature of an attack for real discussion to begin with. O.k. you think Vonnegut sucks. Why? He is boring. Why? If you are going to be a writer, you have to talk in terms of a writer, not a junior high equivalent of “my rock band blows yours away”. Tell me in terms of writing: plot, pacing, character development, climax and resolution, resonance, the overall theme to the events (if it is deep enough - doesn’t have to be, I like a well written adventure story as much as the next person) etc.

My favorite author is probably one of the most hated in literary circles - Ayn Rand. Although I hold the glib ivory league literati in no high regard anywho. But, I’ve met people who can’t get through a 60 page speech dealing with philosophical themes in a novel let alone anywhere else (and a few other reasons besides). Even though 600 pages would be like a banquet to me, I can see how some people couldn’t stomach it. If they can articulate at least some explanation for a non-favorable review, I’m open to some sort of discussion.

But “it sucks” and “it’s boring” is both a sucky and boring explanation I live too short a time to even bother with. You know what? I think I’m going to go out and try some Vonnegut (too bad, Flow, he isn’t still here to make the money). Any suggestions?

The argument that beats all other arguments in this case.

[size=200]“Oh Yeah! My Dad Can Beat Up Your Dad!”[/size]


PS: Using “sucks” in poetry.

Being in love sucks.
Being in love sucks.
A kiss, a hug, and a couple of :blush:
Being in love sucks.