Actually I was asking about the first suggestion. The very first suggestion. I am overdue.
Then again I have 2 weeks scheduled off in July.
Ah! That one! Permission granted.
Dave
-rw-rw-rw-!
I’d just like to note, in all this belt-and-suspenders talk, that my upgrade to IOS 4 took over SIX hours! For a long time, it seemed nothing was happening at all, but I let her ride. I’m now upgrading a second iPhone, and that one will take overnight.
Not very many evident differences in the new version: lost my nice old start screen and I can now put apps into little bundles called Books, Productivity, etc. One thing about having an iPad is I almost never use the iPhone apps any longer. Screen is way too small for my far-sighted vision.
In the morning, I’ll make my daily backup to two external drives.
Thanks for all the advice, guys.
I think the backup methods you are suggesting are a bit too much for me just now, but saying that I download a copy of everything I send to myself by email to my computer (and probably print it out). My computer is backed up by Time Machine, and I use thumb drives galore to keep copies elsewhere. Since my files are small and few, this method serves me okay. I will certainly look into some of the other ideas, but for a 23 year old undergrad student I think some of them may be overkill! I’m very grateful for the heads-up though!
And I’m looking forward to getting my hands on OS4, but I thought I’d wait a few days until demand has dropped on the servers. Besides, both my internet connection and my electricity seemed to want to desert me last night. Does it feel good to be able to manage lots of apps in folders? I have over 400 on my iPhone, and it’s really hard to keep track of them all.
Thanks all,
Helen.
Is 400 apps common? I don’t even have one full screen on my phone. That includes the “default” apps that came with the device.
I guess I have adopted an extreme form of “use it or lose it” mindset. If I don’t use it I toss it. Makes the decisions much easier.
I have 2.5 screens worth of iPhone apps, so what’s that, about 40? And I barely use any of them, owing to eyesight and less-than-deft touch typing. I was happy to switch to iPad because of the much larger screen. It’s odd that Apple sells the iPhone as a productivity device, and the iPad as entertainment. Really, the big screen is a huge tradeoff for phone talk, at least to me. I avoid the phone and try to do all my business in writing. It saves time, leaves a record, and lets me see what we’re discussing.
On the iPad I have a much larger stash of apps, and they are nearly all reference, news, and productivity. I would imagine there’s some percentage of users that have similar agendas. For them, the iPad IS a laptop alternative or supplement, if not replacement. And app development is following that trend, as working apps are fast catching up with play-time apps.
AmberV:
Jobs sees appliances like the iPhone and iPad as the future of all computing devices for most people.
Computer professionals and enthusiasts get exercised about this – but they are not “most people.” Most people want to just switch on their computers, check e-mail, do a little shopping, play FarmVille, and get on with their lives. They’re not interested in installing productivity apps or opening up the backs and tinkering with the hardware.
Jobs uses the analogy of trucks vs. cars. In the beginning of the auto industry (he says) most people lived on farms, and most cars were trucks, because people needed trucks.
I think his history of the auto industry is off–but it’s a good metaphor. Note that if you need or want a truck, you can still buy a truck.
Jaysen -
Backups need to be:
- Redundant, because one might fail.
- Both onsite for convenience, and offsite in case of disaster on your site. Like if you work in a home office and your house burns down (or floods – we’ve been watching “Treme.”)
Cloud backup can be a good component of a backup regime, it can provide the offsite part. But, as you note, cloud backup can be unreliable, so it’s a good idea to have a hard disk on your desk, in addition. (That hard disk will inevitably fail at some point – hard disks always fail, eventually – which is why you have redundant backup.)
Synching to multiple devices, and to the cloud, has the happy by-product of providing additional redundancy for backups.
I think really Jobs sees the future as a place where everyone uses things he creates and thinks are cool. 
Remember that all the users of this forum are writers of one form or another, so in respect of computer use the users here are not “most people” either. Thus Ioa’s comments are relevant to most people here, if not to most people who will use the iPad in general.
That said, yes, I do agree with you. Jobs sees the iPad as the casual computer user’s ideal computer - for those who don’t want to spend ages sitting in front of a computer like they do at work. My mother loves hers (although as a typist who only recently got used to computer keyboards she already hates the onscreen keyboard).
Personally, although I am technically a “computer professional and enthusiast”, I suppose, I don’t really care what devices people use - be it the iPad or napkins daubed in blood (well, as long as it’s not mine) - so long as there are still laptops and computers with full keyboards and full functionality on which I can develop and use Scrivener. (I only get exercised when people tell me I will fail if I don’t develop for the iPad, as though there isn’t already a whopping great platform I don’t develop for that is already bigger ). If “real” computers end up being like trucks, then I guess I’m going into the truck industry.
But what Steve Jobs sees as the future compared to what will really happen, and whether the iPad really will become a laptop replacement for vast numbers of people, all remains to be seen. I have no doubt the iPad and iPad-like devices are going to be hugely popular and will change other aspects of computing in the long run; computers, like all things, have to evolve. But I think the jury is still very much out on whether it will be a laptop replacement (rather than supplement) for those who produce content of any kind. I’m sure the iPad is great for media consumption - which is how Apple still see it, as Ioa has mentioned, and as you can see from the apps that won the Apple Design Awards this year - but as for all of this talk of productivity, I do wonder whether that is in large part the result of long-term Mac users realising they are never going to get a netbook and therefore being determined to make the iPad work for them. I know druid will disagree, but I can’t help thinking that if Apple released a device the size and weight of the iPad (or at least not much heavier) with a laptop keyboard and running OS X, anyone concerned with productivity or writing would choose such a device over the iPad (I’d buy such a device in a heartbeat). An early report indicated that the iPad has as many Windows users as Mac users, but I wonder how many Windows users - who have such a great choice of netbooks - are buying the iPad as a productivity tool, and how many are buying it for everything but work. I suspect Jobs is right to expect the majority of users - “most users”, as you say - to buy it as a consumption device. I’ll be interested to see how it progresses - whether productivity apps really will become a stand-alone major part of the iPad world, or whether they will always be the poorer brother of desktop applications.
Mind you, “poorer brother” is fine by me. I’m really liking the way Simplenote sync is working in Scrivener 2.0, and this in itself could make the iPad more attractive to me. I can now add a note in Simplenote on the iPad and by including a keyword on the first line with a title have Scrivener know which project it belongs to; and I can sync existing documents from a project. That for me is the perfect use the iPad - being able to make notes on it if I want to, that I can then take to my desktop or laptop machine really easily for using the full power of a program such as Scrivener.
Anyway, I really should get back to that Simplenote code…
All the best,
Keith
KB - It’s not the iPad (and iPhone’s) form factor that is the wave of the future, in Jobs’s mind (and I think he’s right). It’s the idea of the computer as appliance, a thing you don’t open, and don’t modify much except to install apps.
Although I do see the tablet form factor as becoming more popular, I don’t see it as replacing the need to sit at a desk, in a chair, with a keyboard and full-sized display, and work hard.
I don’t think writers are any different from other users, except that they, y’know, write. Some of them come from a computer science background, like Charles Stross (brilliant science fiction writer, Scrivener user and evangelist). These writers demand a lot from their computers.
Others just want to write on their computers, and are happy with Microsoft Word on an ancient system. Or even WordPerfect – one writer I know continues to use her DOS version of WP, on a virtual machine on Windows. This group would like to use an appliance.
The advantage to writing on the iPad vs. the Mac is the focus and concentration. Because the iPad runs only one app at a time, and it fills the full screen, and it’s hard to task-switch, you’re less likely to be distracted by the latest Star Wars Kid video. But if Jobs is right, and appliances begin to take on the roles we now use full-fledged computers for, then they’ll have to start looking like computers, with bigger display, and support for multitasking.
And, yes, you as a software developer would definitely be one of those who can’t make do with just an appliance, and who needs a fully functional customizable PC.
Looking forward to Simplenote integration. What’s the target date for Version 2.0?
Hmm, I was more talking about the writers on this particular forum, who in the main aren’t just happy using Word. The majority of writers, you are right, will continue using straightforward word processing apps. But I disagree that most writers are going to want an “appliance”; at least, not for their actual writing. The OS has little to do with it - for serious writing over many hours, no one who doesn’t want to inflict on themselves a serious neck injury is going to want to write on an iPad, even one connected to a keyboard dock. It has nothing to do with being a computer geek or not - a laptop or desktop computer is just more suited to writing because they are built around the whole concept of using a keyboard for input. The iPad and iPhone are built around a touch interface, and keyboards are secondary for the necessary evil of entering text where it is unavoidable. Those keyboards can be harnessed for other purposes - writing and so on - but the entire design of an iPad or iPhone is not designed for serious long-form writing. It’s just not. But that’s not to say you can’t write on them, of course. I would liken it to the difference between a small Moleskine pocket notebook and an A4 pad. Sure, when I’m out and about I’ll write in my Moleskine - it’s perfect for that. But at my desk I’m not going to sit cramped over a tiny page - instead I’ll write in an A4 pad. My point is just that writers are different in that whereas “most users” might only need something like an iPad at home, writers will need a more serious computer as well; for writers the iPad is a supplementary device, a note-taking device (although I prefer a Moleskine still) rather than a full-on writing solution.
The difference between writers and other users is exactly as you put it - writers write. That’s just not something the iPad was designed for. As you say, it was designed as an “appliance”. My point about form factor has nothing to do with future or past; I was merely pointing out that a laptop the size and weight of the iPad would be infinitely more useful for a writer than an iPad, and my feeling is that a lot of Mac users are persuading themselves that the iPad really is a netbook killer just because they know they aren’t getting a netbook. I think Jobs’ comparison of the iPad to a netbook in his keynote was misleading, and that the iPad is nothing like a netbook; it’s a new type of device entirely. It is probably better for the average user for all of the things he listed in his keynote - but it is not better than a netbook for writing. I think there is a little of the Emperor’s New Clothes here, except that the iPad is a genuinely great device on its own terms. I just have a feeling that in a couple of years, a lot of iPad users with neck and wrist problems are going to pick up a laptop or netbook and find that “magical and revolutionary”. 
Indeed, form factor is very significant - most of the e-mails and requests I have had concerning an iPad version are from users who are thinking of getting one or have just got one because they want something more portable than the current range of Apple laptops; they want something easier to carry around. Were there an iPad-sized laptop running OS X, I have no doubt that many of them would choose it instead; many of these users aren’t even aware that the iPad’s OS is significantly different from OS X, in fact.
And of course, the point about not being able to switch to other apps is moot, as iOS 4.0 now has multi-tasking.
These debates are perhaps ultimately pointless, because those determined to use their iPads as their number one writing machines are never going to agree with me that the iPad isn’t the most brilliant writing device ever; but anyone who can successfully write all of their material on an iPad is already an organised and linear writer who probably doesn’t need Scrivener anyway, in the same way as somebody who can write an entire novel on a typewriter doesn’t need it, and obviously that’s my main concern. As you say, most users use Word and other word processors, and such users aren’t really my potential customers anyway - although I do envy them their focus and ability to manage long-from writing with linear tools.
As for 2.0, late September, October at the latest. But I’m not saying which year.
All the best,
Keith
Appliance =/= tablet or even netbook. An “appliance” five years down the road might look like a PC, with a full-size keyboard, big display, and mouse or trackball.
Assuming that is of course that we’re not all uploading our brains to computers by then.
The writers in this forum would not be good candidates for using appliances as their exclusive computer. By virtue of their presence in this forum, they’ve demonstrated a desire to open the case of their computers and get at the insides.
And I think we’re going to have to disagree on the form factor of the iPad for writing. It is quite comfortable for writing extended periods, especially if you don’t use the Keyboard Dock and instead use the Wireless Keyboard, which lets you position the iPad at a comfortable distance and angle from the keyboard. The keyboard is not an afterthought, it is an integrated part of the experience (although it needs better support for keyboard shortcuts).
I knew at least one published novelist using the iPad as his primary writing computer – I’ll ping him to find out if that’s still the case.
Good luck to him and to others who do so. But as I say, they’re not potential Scrivener users so really not my worry.
An “appliance” that looks like a PC etc is just a PC by another name, so I don’t really understand the difference you are trying to make there.
And to me using an external keyboard to use stripped-down tools on the iPad just seems pointless when I have one of the best laptops running the best OS handy. But hey, each to their own. As I’ve said all along, I’ll just continue developing the tool I love for those who want to use it. It’s always been a niche market and will no doubt to carry on being so. I’m not trying to persuade anyone - everyone has to find the writing tools that work for them, and if that happens to be an AlphaSmart or iPad or any other mobile device, all power to them. Just so long as no one tries to persuade too forcefully me to start make tools I have no interest in, I’m happy.*
But yeah, we’ll have to disagree.
*Which doesn’t discount someone else making it, etc etc…
So here’s one other thought on the 'pad as a tool for note taking: environment. In certain floors of the library, and in certain classrooms, especially those with indirect ceiling lighting, (what institution doesn’t have this kind of lighting?) the glare on the screen of a flat, down on the table, iPad is crushing. I didn’t bring a protractor with me, and it seems all the students here are pre-med, not architects or engineers, so I could not easily borrow one, but I’m guessing the glare is crippling up to about 35 to 40 degrees from flat. I’m thinking sun glasses might be necessary. Now, if you push the pad forward, in front of you, to a more ergonomically appropriate distance of a foot or so away, the glare is reduced, as if the angle were pitched up (as would be the case with the Apple case) but in well lit instiutions, without some kind of prop, it really is a challenge to see the screen for typng more than a few words. Funny, upstairs in the yet-to-be-renovated areas, where the dust mites rule, the iPad works great. So much for the fickle impact of progress.
As I write this, looking for just the right pitch to avoid the reflection of the ceiling lights, I’m also noticing another environmental phenomenon about the iPad: It’s noisy to type on. Unlike others who don’t like the iPad keyboard, I find that I fly across the keys much better than with a standard keyboard, it’s as if I’m finger painting with letters. But if I’m not careful, especially with my left pinkie, and on the lower center keys, I end up making a tap on each keystroke, perhaps when my nail hits the glass, and it’s loud. Others around me have noticed. I’m glaring back at them just as my iPad screen glares back at me. In this huge silent space it certainly makes me self-conscious of using the fatty part of my fingers to dab away at words.
By the way, did everyone see Hog Bay’s new iPad Text editing app?
blog.hogbaysoftware.com/post/714 … os-preview
DropBox syncing, multiple, real folders, ultra simple. For those in the thread above who were talking about how to edit Scrivener on the iPad, my answer has been to save chapters or sections as txt files in a DropBox folder and edit away on any of my seemingly expanding supply of devices. With DropBox I never worry about updating or transferring files, so I here what you all are saying about clouds, but I’m not so sure that all clouds are created equal. Anyway, Jess’s new app looks great for working through scrivenings on the go.
Now if I could only find a nail clipper and my Ray Bans.
Doug
The silly thing about this is that a glossy screen seems to be nearly 100% Apple’s vanity. A textured screen would not only obscure fingerprints, it decreases friction by reducing the amount of surface area your finger is in contact with, and of course, diffuses glare.
It doesn’t need to be a lot, a very tiny amount of texture can go a long way. If you want to see/feel a glass surface that is properly textured for touch interfacing, try any newish MacBook/Pro with the large “no button” trackpad. Those are all glass glazed textured surfaces. They are low-friction, my fingers never get hung up on them, and because it is glass it will stay textured a lot longer than textured plastic would. I’ve had this thing for close to a couple of years now, and it doesn’t have any shiny areas like a normal plastic trackpad would at this point.
But I bet it doesn’t look as “cool”, so we get stuck with a surface that could be used as a Hubble mirror were it not for the thick haze of fingerprints all over it.
Fortunately, there are people that make screen protectors with a textured surface to them. I have one for my iPod Touch, I just haven’t checked to see if they are making any iPad sized ones yet. You barely even notice the visual change in screen clarity at all, in my opinion.
Update: All right, I couldn’t resist. I did some quick searches and came up with these options:
- invisibleSHIELD review: Made of an ultra-strong rubbery material which is used to protect things like the leading edges of helicopter blades. Looks like a nightmare to install, but effectively permanent once affixed—which means you don’t have to keep replacing it, not that it is impossible to remove without damage to the device. They supply device back and screen protector kits.
- iLounge’s comprehensive review of iPad protective films. Note I linked to the page specifically on films, the rest of the article looks at shell and enclosure style cases.
My experience with these products is that taking a good half-hour to do a thorough job of application definitely pays off. Doing a quick job of it will inevitably mean specks of debris trapped in between the film and the screen, bubbles, and eventually peeling corners. The iLounge link recommends some good steps to take. Definitely use a safe cleaning solution and microfibre cloth to initially clean the screen, work in a well-lit and as dust-free as possible area, and try not to get frustrated. It’s a pain applying an iPhone-sized screen, I can only imagine the effort is much more with an iPad.
Ooh, nice! (Is anyone else having problem’s accessing the Hog Bay site by the way? I had to view it in a cached Google page - I just get “server not found” errors if I try to access the Hog Bay site directly.) Now I want to look into syncing to that. Love the paper-like interface.
All the best,
Keith
He’s moving 100% to DropBox sycing, so any file you drop into any folder in DB will be accessible on any machine (txt only) There is nothing for Scrivener to do, it will iPad sync to this thing (I think) just by an export/import from Scrivener to a folder on your MacBook/MacBookPro/iMac/Mini/Dell Laptop/whatever so long as that folder is included in the DropBox tree.
So there’s the big question, right? The one I asked over there on the Hog Bay site and is so far unanswered… (Site’s fine for us Yanks in NYC, btw)
The question I asked was…
KB -
In a word: customizability. Instead of downloading anything from anywhere, you’d get your apps from an App Store-type marketplace. The vendor of the appliance (Apple or whoever) would keep a tight leash on modifications developers are allowed to make.
The hacker community would scream bloody murder – but the result would be devices that are more stable, and more standardized, than even Macs.
I’m fine with this direction – so long as hackable systems are ALSO available, and as long as it’s legal for the owner of the device to do whatever he wants with it.
Well, I don’t find it comfortable typing with a laptop on my lap. My wife says I have no actual lap, which is a problem for pets and nieces and nephews when they were smaller.
Absolutely. I’m far more interested in finding out how other people use computers than in telling them that they’re right or wrong.
Nor am I interested in attempting to dictate how you should write Scrivener (I hope you realize that). I’ll make suggestions if you’re interested, and if you don’t follow them, that’s fine. You’re the chef. And if you’re not interested in my suggestions, that’s fine too.
But the trouble is that you would have to import/export from Scrivener to use it. I’m interested in setting up a better solution. My idea is that you would sync by having Scrivener automatically write text files into a couple of folders in Dropbox that could be accessed by PlainText, and Scrivener would include information on the first line of those text files so that it knew which documents in the Scrivener project they were associated with. It could then automatically update the files in Scrivener with any changes you made in to the plain text files in Dropbox when you went to sync again. This is similar to what I have set up for Simplenote. I’ve written to Jesse to get more details, but otherwise I’ll be sure to take a good look at how I can get this working when PlainText is released.
Looking at the video, my guess is that you will have to move any plain text files you want to edit into the “PlainText” folder in Dropbox somewhere. But as I say, that’s just a guess based on the screencast.
I really do love what he’s done with PlainText though, and I look forward to trying it out.
All the best,
Keith
We’re definitely going to have to disagree here. The idea of only being able to buy applications from one authorised store is bad for everybody, not just “hackers”. How would you feel if you were suddenly only allowed to buy your groceries from one authorised store? Or your clothes? And any clothes that store didn’t think “appropriate”, you couldn’t buy? It’s the same thing. The idea of a single app store doesn’t worry me so much as a developer - after all, once you’re on it, you have a massive audience and don’t have to worry about things like serial numbers, hosting your own software etc - but as a user - as a regular customer - it scares the hell out of me. I don’t want a machine that doesn’t allow me to install what I want from where I want. A single App Store makes sense on the iPhone, where Apple really do have to ensure that apps aren’t going to prevent the user making, say, a 999 (911) call. But elsewhere, the only reason for it is control freakery. I’ve got nothing against having a controlled App Store or on other devices at all either - just so long as it’s not the only way I can install applications. On the iPad and any other future devices, users really should be able to install applications from anywhere, but the App Store could be there for authorised apps. So the user knows that it’s down to him or her to risk installing apps from elsewhere and can’t moan if things acting funny, but the option is there.
If people are going to willingly embrace a future where a large corporation has complete control over what you can and can’t install on your computer… Well, you may as well also have Apple telling you what websites you are allowed to visit, and what shoes you are allowed to wear. It’s not a future I want to be part of.
As I say, I’m fine with locking down devices where security issues could be life-threatening, like the iPhone. But you are talking about the iPad becoming the future of computing for “most users” and being completely locked down and essentially censored by a corporation, with “hackable” devices being for the rare few. I think your definition of “hackable” is rather strange by the way - you seem to be using the word “hackable” in the sense of someone being able to set up their own computer - which they spent hundreds of pounds on - the way they want and installing the software they want. That’s not hacking in any sense. Unless it’s locked down of course.
And I don’t feel comfortable typing on my iPad on my lap - or anywhere else for that matter.
Oh, that wasn’t intended as a dig at you or anything, just a general comment on the way things are at the moment. To be honest, what is really ruining my whole iPad experience is that I am now getting the same occasionally rude and demanding e-mails from Mac users that I am used to getting from Windows users. But let me clarify that as it seems ungracious: The vast majority of e-mails I receive from both Windows and iPad users who are asking for a version of Scrivener for their preferred platform are really, really nice, and I love the fact that people like Scrivener enough to want it on other platforms. Most people e-mail me to ask the situation politely, and I reply to tell them the situation - nothing is ruled out, but not in the immediate future - and they say, “Well, that’s a shame; it’s something I would buy, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed for the future.” Which is great - someone likes my app and if we can do these things in the future, we have some extra customers ready and waiting. But one in every twenty is from someone who forgets the internet still involves interacting with another human being.
The worst was from a Windows user last year or the year before, who wrote to tell me that he liked the look of the app but had discovered it was written by a HIPPY who wasn’t interested in making MONEY and so wasn’t making it for Windows. I replied, nicely, that I wasn’t insulted to be called a hippy but that wasn’t my motivation; that I was just one person without the resources to develop for multiple platforms, but that I had nothing against Windows - I just happened to be a Mac user. And if things changed in the future I would certainly consider it. There then followed several e-mails from him telling me that I should remortgage my house (I rent, I protested), sell everything I had, because it would surely SELL, and I was an idiot for not doing it, and that if I didn’t someone else would take my ideas and make the money I was too much of a hippy to want. Etc.
Which was nice. And now here I am, receiving the occasional similar - if not quite so forceful - e-mail from Apple users in regard to the iPad. “And that is why you will remain a marginal program that no one has heard of,” one person commented on my blog when I said there were no plans at the moment for an iPad (which was ironic, because he had clearly heard of me). Every tenth Twitter comment ends by saying, “Great app, would be great if there was an iPad version.” And the common refrain is, “Well, if you don’t do it, someone else will.” Subtext: I want this and if you don’t make me what I want then you’re gonna regret it!
Again, these are a minority. Most requests I get are from enthusiastic users who just want to be able to access and edit their Scrivener notes while on the go, and for them I really am working hard to provide Simplenote sync, and I’ll be looking into Jesse’s great new app.
And here’s the thing: neither an iPad version nor a Windows version are written off. Not. At. All. But these things can’t happen over night, and I myself cannot develop for more than one platform without doing the Mac users - and I’m one of them - a huge disservice. And ultimately, when we come out with a kick-ass iPad app in a year-and-a-half or whatever, some people are going to think I’ve been proved wrong and changed my mind, but really, all my railing has nothing to do with what I would like to do - I’d love to provide an iPad version, but while I have limited development resources I have to choose to develop for the platform I personally want to use, because my soul would curl up and die if I started doing anything so hideous as “following the market” (a second-rate approach). My railing against an iPad version has more to do with spending years of my life developing the coolest writing application (I think) for the the best OS for writing (I think - yes, I know you disagree, but hey, it’s not my fault you prefer a different platform). And - well, it’s like this: imagine you’re a painter who has dedicated his life to painting giant, impressionistic landscapes, and then someone comes along, takes a quick glance at them, and says, “Hey, that looks really cool. I’m more into photography, though. Could you takes some photos instead?” Sure, you know the rules of composition, and you admire certain photographers; but dammit, you really fricking love painting. Yet every day you get people telling you or hinting at you that you’re going to fail unless you take up photography too.
Or something.
Anyway, that is far too long a post for first thing in the morning, and no doubt full of errors and errant nonsense.
I won’t be developing an iPad version; Windows would be a better fit for Scrivener than the iPad; Scrivener 2.0 will have some ways to sync with an iPad though; still, nevertheless, watch this space.
Best,
Keith