I’m wondering about adding DEVONthink (DT) to my work setup.
I write non-fiction books and magazine/online features. For each project, my tools right now are Scrivener for writing (of course); Things for reminders, notes, and info; Safari for web research; Mail for, yes, email; and the Finder and its structure for saving and storing related material.
I think DT could replace the Finder part, and also probably the info bit of Things. It seems I would probably want to integrate DT with Safari for web research, and apparently I could even use it to store relevant emails, though I’m not clear about the need for that. DT touts its search as “better” (I paraphrase) than the Finder’s, so that could be a plus, and the ability to use DT as a hub for related material and link items back and forth between DT and Scriv seems attractive.
Currently, I’m taking advantage of what amounts to an extended trial period by using DT 4’s open beta, until it goes full release, when I’ll need to make a decision about further use.
So … how do others here use DT in their own workflows? I know—everyone uses a particular combination of tools for their own particular circumstances. But before I decide whether to take the plunge—after all, DT is not cheap software—I’d love to hear if my fellow Scriv lovers are finding DT useful. And if so, how.
I find DEVONthink useful and essential to keep all my research material and notes that supports the Scrivener Projects. I normally “import” and do not “index” very much. I usually create inside my “Projects” Group in DEVONthink a named group for the Scrivener project and gather stuff there by duplication and/or replicating.
Take a look at the “free” e-book available from DEVONtechnologies “Take Control of DEVONthink” to get a better feel for the application.
Thanks rms, that’s interesting. Do you find DT is an improvement compared to storing the same kind of stuff in Finder structures? (And yes, that Take Control book is very good.)
I’ve been using DEVONthink for more than 15 years. I can’t remember using Finder as an interface to important document databases so I can’t comment other than to say Finder with Spotlight are pale in comparison.
The only thing wrong with this is that it misses out the word ‘substantially’ …
You don’t use DT for all your documents, but for those important documents you want to store, categorise, search, analysis, and / or annotate, it it can do things that Finder either does less efficiently or can’t do at all (e.g. suggesting where a given document should best be stored – or how it should be tagged – given its content and your existing structure.
I suspect most people use DT with Scrivener in the same way they do with Tinderbox: collate the background materials in DT, decide which bits you actually need for the writing / further analyse, and then either import the key bits into Scrivener/TBX or have then both open side by side as you work.
@brookter nails it for use in writing something substantial with Scrivener.
It also occurs to me that there are numerous file integrity and backup/restore that work “silently” behind the scenes or initiated by user to check on imported files.
Of course DEVONthink not for everyone, especially when what they do without DEVONthink is considered “good enough”. Everyone doesn’t have equal needs or recognition of needs.
@django Perhaps a more detailed example would help?
If you look at the Appendix: Search Operators / Prefixes pages in the DT4 manual, you can see the full range of search operators.
E.g. One of the examples is the manual is Paracetamol NEAR (~effect OR impact) AND ((side OR second*) NEAR/2 ~effect) – or find text where there’s any variation of the phrase ‘paracetamol side effects’ or its common variations.
Using Smart Rules, you can then operate on the results of the search automatically with a wide range of actions – e.g. tagging, moving, deleting, replicating, adding metadata etc etc (there’s a lot of actions, which you can chain together…).
So for your use case, you could collate all the background research for your project, then go through them annotating / analysing / tagging etc. When the time comes for writing, you construct a search to collate them all together in a single group (they’ll be aliases – replicants – of the original documents so you don’t disrupt your structure) for easy import into Scrivener or have DT open while you work in Scrivener.
It’s this research / analyse / condense and collate stage where you narrow down what you need for Scrivener, that is DT’s strength over the pure Finder, I think. It’s not essential, but it can be very helpful in the right circumstances.
It can look a bit off-putting, especially when you see the raw search syntax (I included the example just to show how much more flexible the search is than the Finder’s…). But the searches and the smart rules are usually done through popups which hide much of the complexity.
And it can be as simple as:
read your documents in DT and tag suitable ones (for_scriv )
Search for tag = for_scriv and create a Smart Group (saved search).
Drag the files from the Smart Group over into Scrivener.
Of course, you could do that in the Finder with tags and smart searches. But DT offers a lot more power and flexibility if you need it.
I use DT for almost all of my research materials. I usually don’t even bother linking items back to Scrivener.
The most useful aspects of DT from my point of view:
Speed. My databases have millions of words. DT barely breaks a sweat searching them.
See Also/Classify. Facilitate rapid filing of new material, offer suggestions that I haven’t considered.
Portability. Some people complain that DevonThink to Go, the iOS version is too limited. Personally, I love it and use it constantly. The desktop version gives me all the ability to find things that I could want, and DTTG lets me read those things anywhere.
Brooker, appreciate the simpler example! And I can see how how the straightforward popups will ease the path.
I am indeed experimenting… and the more I uncover in DT, the more attractive it becomes.
Still overwhelming, certainly, but then so was Scrivener at first, and that counts as my best app discovery ever. It literally (ha!) transformed the way I work as a writer. I’m beginning to think DT will do the same.
Kewms, I’m sure we’ve “met” before over at the Scriv forum, so hello again. Your three points are well made. I’m not quite in the millions of words as I test out DT on a low-ish level (and of course, as DT 4 is still beta, the usual limiting caveats apply). But I can see already how DT’s search is efficient, very effective, and, dare I say it, intelligent. The See Also/Classify facility is something I haven’t tried yet, and I haven’t decided if I’ll need DTGo as I don’t write on my iOS or ipados devices. Exciting stuff.
As I mentioned, I have used DEVONthink a long time. Same with Scrivener. The nice thing is that I’m continuing to learn and exploit those learnings. I like apps that grow with me.
