Is Scrivener for Windows Falling Off

Scrivener Scrivener for Windows
1

I was on the L&L website today for the first time in quite a while. I was disturbed by the lack of attention paid towards the Windows OS. Everything seems to be about Mac.

It was like pulling teeth to see the current version of windows, which I never did locate. It appears as though L&L is really focusing on mac. That would be a mistake IMHO. Anyway, I’m not the ones making all the money. I’m only one of the crowd that is giving money to pour into mac. Am I bitter? Yeah, a little bit.

I would like to request some respect for the Windows platform.

Please don’t go this route L&L. Please show some respect to Windows. We too are a powerful group of users. Maybe moreso than the mac crowd, who knows. This is not a tirade against mac - I view all computing individuals as equal in the computing world. We all want to make a computer do something for our benefit. I just don’t want to see (what I have always perceived as . . .) a respectful entity such as L&L go down the path of displaying (intentional or non-intentional) favoritism toward a chosen OS.

2

Well yes, I would expect to see a lot of interest in the Mac version a week after a major update.

So you might have missed the simultaneous announcement of the Windows Scrivener 3 public beta. More information can be found here:
https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/scrivener-3-0-beta-release-candidate-10-download-links-change-list/38228/1

Katherine

3

You couldn’t have looked too hard.

From the top of the main L&L page, select Products > Scrivener, then page to the bottom, and you’ll find a big red “Buy Now” button for each of the 3 Scrivener versions, including Windows.

Perhaps that big chip on your shoulder is blocking your vision?

4

Don’t be rude. :neutral_face:

What you’re pointing out is not a windows 3 version. Windows 3 version is still in beta, and although it is easy to find and download the older 1.9.7 release, it is really hard for the first time visitors to find where to download the beta.

So yeah, Dekade is right. I also had a hard time finding the windows beta.

A good day to you, sir.

5

You might enjoy S3 for Windows (and feel the love):

  1. literatureandlatte.com/scriv … ows-update

  2. Scrivener 3.0 Beta - Release Candidate 10 (Download Links & Change List)

6

The original poster didn’t mention the beta at all. They lamented how hard it was to find the current version. That version is available via two clicks off the main page: literatureandlatte.com/

See the big red “BUY NOW” button? Click it, Along the top/middle of the page, under the rather large, dark brown “Buy Scrivener” header/banner, there are links to MacOS, Windows, iOS, and Bundles sub-pages. Along the bottom of that page, there is a link under the heading “Want to try Scrivener?”. This is all new information to me; I didn’t know any of that until I tried looking for the current version just now.

As for the beta… there’s a good reason not to plaster links to the beta version all over the main site… it’s a beta. And that beta is not ready for regular use, as per this page: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40621

Why on earth would a company encourage the general public to try out a version that almost certainly has bugs that they themselves think are major enough to endanger important projects?

7

Yes, exactly. The existence of the Windows beta is evidence that Scrivener for Windows isn’t being abandoned, as the OP seems to imply. But it is not the way we want to introduce ourselves to new users.

Katherine

8

It is truly very difficult in today’s world to write text that cannot be read incorrectly. I tried to make the post non offensive because I knew that there is always a possibility of face value not weathering storms.

I apologize to have offended you with my appearance to have lack of courtesy; and further appearance to display a chip on my shoulder. My mistake was in saying “. . . bitter . . .”

As writers, we are responsible in this world, to make our thoughts acceptable to others. I appreciate the efforts by L & L to having done just that by way of this forum.

Again, I apologize, I was just inquiring as to the mindset of L & L regarding further development of Scrivener period. I have been aware of MAC upgrades, I have been aware of Windows development. I was merely stating that I felt as though there might be trending towards popularizing one OS over the other.

I have always enjoyed the free nature appearance, ethics, and integrity of L&L; I simply felt left out, as I am a Windows user.

9

Scrivener originated on the Mac, and the Mac version has a five year head start over the Windows version. That’s just historical fact. But the goal of Windows Scrivener 3 is to fix that and achieve parity between the two platforms.

Katherine

10

I now understand the history. I thank you for that information. I would never have disowned Scrivener; that said, now I think it is neat L&L saw the need (early on; unbeknownst to me) to infiltrate into the Windows market. Thanks for an outstanding and fun program.

My bitter thought pattern must have flown the coop. I don’t know where it went. Guess I don’t need it anymore.

Anxious for the Win OS upgrade.

Dean

11

Thank you for your thoughtful response. It is far more polite and civil than my blunt reply to your OP. :blush:

I have a (admittedly unasked for) suggestion that might help with that.

Suppose that your OP, in its entirety, had been something along the lines of: “I haven’t been on the L&L website in quite a while. Can someone please update me regarding L&L’s plans for the Windows version of Scrivener?”

That simple question would likely have garnered multiple replies from the genuinely kind-hearted and helpful folk who frequent these forums. (You’d be hard-pressed to find a forum with a better group.) They probably would have directed you to Keith’s blog and/or his various posts and/or provided excerpts of same. And your question would have been answered, and any concerns you have alleviated.

So my (unrequested) suggestion is: If you have a question, the most efficient way to get it answered is simply to ask it. And leave out all that other stuff. :slight_smile:

Thank you again.
Jim

12

I had to think long and hard about how I wanted to add to my thread, or, if I wanted to elaborate/add at all. Upon purposely (with premeditated intention) revisiting the L&L home page … I have decided to also revisit my original post topic.

Despite my original post being poor in structure there is ample reason to revisit the overall topic. So, I will proceed. Disclaimer: If anyone allows their defenses to get rattled over any part of this particular reply … I apologize. Facts are facts, and I point out website shortcomings with full respect to all. Do I have credentials to do such an analysis? . . . Read on.

Go to the L&L home page http://www.literatureandlatte.com/

Do not click on anything.

Point #1 - Scrolling only, there is zero reference to Windows.
Point #2 - Next … Click on “Products” at the top . . . zero emphasis on windows. Mac is obvious.
Point #3 - Next … Still residing on the website results of Point #2 click on “Visit Our Store” . . . zero emphasis on windows. Mac is obvious
Point #4 - Next … Again, still residing on the website results of Point #2 click on “Scrivener” clickable link; (to the left of the Scapple clickable link) . . . Finally, there is an easily overlooked one liner - Scrivener 3 is now available for macOS and will be a free update for all new Windows customers. In itself that is a confusing one liner when quickly read.

Now, before I provide elaboration, and direction on where I’m going, allow me to state whether or not I have credentials that allow for further assessing and support towards the overall topic of my original post. (Again, emphasizing that I did not do a good job of original post presentation.)

Having started with $11 to our name (in the basement of our USA home) in 1984 my wife and I proceeded to create, over the next 30 years, a multi tens of millions of dollars international medical company. We wore all the hats in the beginning years. That said, image was our main focus - to create an appearance that we were bigger than we actually were and muffle the fact that we would eventually be as big as we appeared. Our marketing succeeded. Our image became our industry’s “standard”.

Now, one final thing. I said the above paragraph ONLY to provide a credential. I have no need in life to flaunt achievement. I have received my accolades over the years and seek not to acquire any further accolades via self awarded brownie points.

Back to the original intention of this post reply.

Point #5 - Upon landing at the L&L home page there is no light bulb at all clarifying Scrivener as being cross platform.
Point #6 - That is a marketing failure.
Point #7 - Taking for granted that people know Scrivener is cross platform employs the old acronym … “Assume” … assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
Point #8 - It does not matter AT ALL how little the number of clicks required to conclude that Scrivener can be used also on Windows OS’s, or, what version (for that matter) is currently available.
Point #9 - IT GREATLY MATTERS as to whether or not the home page, in itself, can “MAKE A SALE”
Point #10 - SCRIVENER, currently launching the explosive and fulfilling Chapter 3 for Mac, and . . . complimenting the same accolade . . . soon to be released - Chapter 3 for Windows. Both OS’s providing DYNAMIC solutions for the amateur writer through to the seasoned writer. A software for all genres of writing requirements from novels to corporate presentations. A software that never stops improving.
Point #11 - When a SALE is CLOSED without any clicking the following occurs - clicking on infra website links stirs up the inner fires of anticipation leading to the actual outlay of funds towards the shopping cart. Irritations, limitations, and unsupported disappointments are FULLY SQUELCHED when a SALE is CLOSED upon first observation.

In closing - as we all know:

1 - The world is very fast paced. Clicking is not the slow down solution
2 - The first 250 words of a novel sells the rest of the book

My eyes do not see any harm/offense done in this post reply. Should any harm/offense be taken . . . I deeply, deeply, deeply apologize.

I seek only to take pleasure from experiencing the advancement and unparalleled success of SCRIVENER being the “industry standard” for standalone computer writing software. Maybe someday it will even be available as a live networking editing solution for collaborative writing groups, agents, publishing houses, and think tanks.

Kind Regards to ALL,

Dekade

13

Now that your point is clarified, I have to agree that the new website appears to do L&L a disservice as far as the visibility of any of their products besides Scrivener 3 Mac. I was struck by it when the new site went live, but said nothing due to to the fact that I have the diplomacy and grace of a charging rhinoceros in such matters. :smiley:

OTOH, I also believe that this must be a primary concern for L&L, and that they are checking the website traffic and sell-through as carefully as any other business. I will therefore leave them to it, trusting they will make mid-course corrections as needed.

14

Attached please find two screenshots, both from the main Scrivener product page. literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview

Products1.png
Products1.png806×300 5.18 KB

Products2.png
Products2.png2154×964 63.6 KB

I’m not sure what your latest missive is trying to accomplish, though. Are you trying to reassure yourself about the future of Windows Scrivener? I thought we had that conversation upthread? Or is your goal to critique the site design from the point of view of a Windows user?

If the latter, I should point out that we want people to explore a bit, make use of the trial, figure out what Scrivener does before putting down money to buy it. Impulse purchases tend to lead to angry emails to the support team about “missing” features that we never promised in the first place. It is not a goal to Make The Sale with the front page of the site.

Katherine

15

Exactly, Katherine. As I said, I presume you all are watching statistics and making sure the website does its job from your point of view. It is literally not my business, and I’ll leave you all to run it.

16

I should probably let dekade speak for himself, but my understanding is that his goal in the most recent post was precisely “to critique the site design from the point of view of a Windows user.”

I know zip about marketing, so I can’t decide between dekade’s click-and-buy-from-first-page and Kathryn’s explore-a-bit-and-figure-out-then-buy approaches. But clearly they are different approaches, and clearly each has been successful. My recollection’s a bit hazy, but I think I was first referred to Scrivener by a writer friend several years ago, and I did (as I normally do) explore the then-existing Website before downloading the trial.

I do remember, though, that it was quite clear to me from near the top of the front page that Scrivener was available in a robust version for Windows. That is not clear from the current L&L front page, which doesn’t mention Windows at all but does prominently feature Mac and iOS. If I came to that page today, I would definitely have to do some exploring to find out that there even is a current Windows version that many writers are using with great success. The Overview page has, near the top, assurances that Scrivener 3 is “in the works for Windows” and “will be a free update for all new Windows customers.” Even the video only mentions syncing among Mac, Windows, and iOS. You have to scroll all the way to the bottom to get a clear Buy Now link for Windows.

So I think dekade has a reasonable point (even if poorly expressed in the OP): it’s not stated on the current L&L front page, nor very obvious on the Overview page, that Scrivener is now a highly functioning Windows program, which it certainly is. The simplest blurb on the front page from a satisfied Windows user, and a slight tweaking of text early on the Overview page,* would alleviate this, and IMHO would encourage Windows users to do the exploring that they rightfully should do to make their buying decision.

*Tweak examples: “Scrivener is the go-to app for writers of all kinds on Mac, Windows, or iOS”; “will be a free update for customers who buy the current Windows version now.”

17

Katherine, I need to call you out on your reply. I will support and concede to anything anyone says in rebuttal on any forum as long as it has sustainable merit.

My post clearly references specific TOP LEVEL clicks. My latest post clearly defines my objective. I am critiquing the overabundance of visual eye candy pointed at Mac. I am not saying anything, at this point, about what is downstream of your referenced SECOND LEVEL and THIRD LEVEL clicks. The screen shots you presented ‘do not’ ‘immediately’ link to the advancement of understanding that there is also a Windows OS; nor its current version. You have stated aspects about the ‘overview’ page . . . I said nothing in my latest post about the overview page.

A misunderstanding has additionally occurred regarding the subject of ’ . . . wanting people to explore . . .'.

I do not in my latest post speak against navigating and exploring. My latest post encourages exploring stemming from any excitement generated by absorbing any key clause(s) pointing to BOTH mac and windows, from the home page, and currently not present on the home page. CLEAR emphasis of the existence of BOTH OS’s solidifies the potential purchasers mind towards thinking that L&L must really have their game going because they are CLEARLY supporting multiple platforms and the advancement of their software and progressive versions upon those platforms. Henceforth, a purchaser receives an immediate guarantee that they the purchaser will not be left in the dust by purchasing from L&L.That is the missing drawing card of the home page, fact.

When I say - and I quote - “… a SALE is CLOSED without any clicking…” here is how you must understand that marketing concept: A purchaser has to first clear their mind of need to search further on the internet UNTIL they have continually, positively, stirred their inner high levels of anticipation by further studying just how great SCRIVENER will be for them, via the entire website content.

The responsibility of a home page is to anchor positive core belief and positive core favorable prejudice to your product. Any website down linking retains the sole responsibility of affirmation towards the core proclamations and the core ‘sustainable’ effect of the home page.

From that point on any mistake made by a customer purchasing your product(s) is now their responsibility.

You can create false guilt and choose to shy away from positive mind control of a purchaser based merely upon worrying that they will get your products and dislike it. That is not assertive control over a market place. If you have FAITH in your product(s) - then for crying out loud by all means - - - BE ASSERTIVE, BE PROUD, BE BOASTFUL, BE COERCIVE and your FAITH will back all that up; because - FAITH can only be obtained through the acquisition of BELIEF in a superior technically developed product that does what it proclaims.

If the L&L marketing team does not want the public to believe that their product will produce, before purchase, - then the green light exists to downplay a superb technically designed creation. Positive mindset is the path to riches and success.

Dekade

18

Three points come to mind:

  1. Windows users wanting parity with Mac has long been a frequent complaint. Now that Scrivener 3 is here, perhaps L&L is trying to do what it can to de-emphasize Scrivener for Windows until 3 is ready. (Pure speculation on my part, as is anyone trying to ascribe motive without asking.)

  2. Perhaps L&L does not see its website as an engine for driving every possible sale it can, and designs to a different set of priorities than yours? Which, again, does not make them wrong, just makes them different. They, after all, have their own set of commercial successes to boast and have been steadily growing their customer base.

  3. There is no advice worse than unasked-for advice, no matter how accurate it may or may not be. Especially once that advice has been offered and refused.

19

Dean…Kamen?

20

Sorry JimRac, I don’t know what you mean here. Kamen is not my last name if that’s what you meant.