Is there any logic in shortcut key combinations?

This is a question asked by someone rather new to the Mac - about 2 years or so. When writing, I love it to keep my hands on the keyboard: So I am always ready to learn keyboard shortcuts that save me mouseclicks.

But I am still wondering whether there is some logic in these combinations.

CMD+key: okay, these are the basic ones. Save, print, copy, cut, paste, bold, italic, find, close window etc.

But what about combinations like CTRL-CMD+key? ALT-CMD+key? SHIFT-ALT+Key? etc.

In Scrivener, there is a certain logic in it so far as CTRL-ALT-CMD+key-combinations mostly move the focus in other areas. For example. And SHIFT-CMD+key-combinations use to call something from the Services menu.

I’d like to know whether there ever existed some guideline how to choose these combinations or whether somebody has spent some thoughts on how to group shortcuts into some logic that I am unable to figure out myself… :blush:

Traditionally, the Option (renamed to Alt on most of their keyboards after the push to get Windows users on board) key does what it sounds like. It is an optional form of whatever the base short-cut would do. So Cmd-Y opens QuickLook, and Cmd-Opt-Y opens QuickLook in slideshow mode. The Option key would also display alternate menus revealing these secondary functions. However ever since the switch to Mac OS X, there has been a much greater move toward fully wiring up an application’s abilities to the keyboard. In the OS 9 days, keyboard short-cuts were scarce, and people were just expected to use the mouse to do practically everything, which was supremely frustrating for Windows users who were used to accessing every single function and every tiniest detail of a dialogue box with the Alt key. Now, it’s a rare application that doesn’t have all of its commonly used functions attached to a keyboard short-cut. I think this tendency, while good, as watered down the logic behind them. Now you have heavy use of Ctrl and shift, and many applications have a slew of commands that don’t even include the Command key—some power apps don’t have any modifiers at all. I bet a significant percentage of the short-cuts in Aperture, for instance, are triggered by a single-letter keypress. Naturally, that wouldn’t work to well in a writing program. :slight_smile:

In Windows, you can actually have two key-commands for the same function: You can always use the ALT-key to go through the menu, plus you may have a second combination - a shortcut - for often used functions. For example, in Winword you get boldface with STRG-B, but you may as well use ALT-F (to go to the Format-menu) + some other keys (I don’t remember them).

Something I like about the way the Mac handles these things: Boldface is always and everywhere CMD-b, italic always CMD-i… no matter which language is active. In Windows I had to remember, “wait, this is program X, German version, here bold is STRG-F” (and I once had a program where boldface was F1!).

And you can define your own key combinations in almost any way you like. For example, I have unified all my applications that provide text fields with rulers that show/hide rulers is always STRG-CMD-R, because I use this quite often.

There is a way to access all menu functions with just the keyboard. In Keyboard Shortcuts, under “Keyboard & Text Input” you can set shortcuts to move the keyboard focus to the Dock and menu bar. It isn’t quite as easy as Windows, though, because there are no pre-defined hot-keys set up for menu navigation. You can type in letters to jump to menus, and then to jump to menu items, but its more like name matching, so you sometimes have to type in more than one letter to get to something, or resort to the arrow keys in a menu that has a lot of repetitiously named functions.

What I wish is that something like LaunchBar could find a way to hook into active applications’ complete menu listings and let you rapidly isolate and select functions.

This is practically the only element of OSX which is clearly inferior to Windows in my (rodentophobic) view. It requires a lot of messing about with the System Preferences panel to be able to use programs the way the Bit-Fairy meant them to be used… The Windows ALT-menu + item system is just simpler and it’s (almost) always there. The effort to learn and use shortcuts (and I use a lot) is much less simply because there is a logic already built in, not one that has to be remembered and reimposed for each new program.

It’s a bit like the single button mouse (a lesser issue, in my view since I hate them all, nasty little wrist-crippling time-wasting pointyclicky horridnesses that they are… and in any case this argument seems dead now): the Apple design isn’t bad, it’s just not as good as the Windows equivalent, in my view, of course. The efforts to defend these relatively less effective designs seemed to be based as much on the theory that anything Mac based is automatically preferable to anything from Windows, rather than the reality of using both features.

I know we’re probably stuck with the shortcut weakness now, but it’s not really tenable to suggest that the ability to define one’s own shortcuts is preferable to a universal method, unless you’re only interested in changing a couple now and then. As a supplementary method to cater for those shortcuts you really want to concentrate, fine - it’s really good. But not as the default method.

Actually, the windows method is not superior. It is inferior. The ALT combination makes data entry difficult if you are using programs, character sets, or connections to secondary systems where the ALT key has special meaning. The OSX method is [i[different[/i] but certainly not inferior. Give it time and you will find that the “windows way” makes less sense to you than it does now.

Jaysen,

I’ve been using macs heavily for the last four years and every day I get mildly irritated by the fact that I if I want to use a shortcut that’s not one of the ‘standards’, then I will either have to have already defined it, in which case I have to remember what it was[1], or create a new one. It’s inefficient and it IS inferior for that daily use. I can work round it, and it doesn’t affect the fact that I much prefer the Mac for almost everything else, but it clearly is less than ideal for my usage. Unfortunately, it’s never going to make more sense because as it stands I’m always going to have to create my own shortcuts to use any program as efficiently as it could be used. How can that be better design?

As for having to connect to remote systems, I have to do a certain amount of remapping to able to use the ALT key in the remote system so I can have a sensible short key procedure…:wink:

Regards

David
[1] and remembering is not as easy as it once was…

I’ve found Keycue a worthwhile investment.

H

Generally, keyboards are the most uncared-for part of todays computer systems, no matter what logo is upon them. Most keyboards are cheap, the keys are clunky, they attract dust and dirt like magnets, some of them are difficult to press (especially space keys), etc. etc. pp. - and even if you’re willing to spend a lot of money on a really good keyboard, you can’t, because there aren’t any. (There are only expensive ones, but their keys are as clunky and unreliable, only that you get some useless stuff added-on - keys to call AMAZON directly or the like.)

And then the useless keys! On every PC keyboard there are at least 3 keys that nobody has used in the last 10 years - keys like “Scroll Lock” - but they continue to provide this keyboard layout religiously. And when I look on my Mac’s keyboard… Well, the EJECT key does not eject anything anymore, doesn’t it? And what about this key on top of the numeric keypad, left from the [ = ]? It has a crossed-out square on it - no idea what this key could be for!

A hundred years ago, when I and home computers were still young, I owned a Schneider CPC Joyce computer. It was slow and , but - it was the only PC ever that was designed especially for writers! No wonder it was no commercial success…

But - this keyboard had what I miss until today: A key for Copy. A key for Cut. A key for Paste. Obviously, this system was designed by somebody who know something about what it means to write.

Generally, keyboards are the most uncared-for part of todays computer systems, no matter what logo is upon them. Most keyboards are cheap, their keys are clunky, they attract dust and dirt like magnets, some of them are difficult to press (especially space keys), etc. etc. pp. - and even if you’re willing to spend a lot of money on a really good keyboard, you can’t, because there aren’t any. (There are expensive ones, of course, but their keys are as clunky and unreliable, you only get some useless stuff added-on - keys to call AMAZON directly or the like.)

And then the useless keys! On every PC keyboard there are at least 3 keys that nobody has used in the last 10 years - keys like “Scroll Lock” - but they continue to provide this keyboard layout religiously. And when I look on my Mac’s keyboard… Well, the EJECT key does not eject anything anymore, doesn’t it? And what about this key on top of the numeric keypad, left from the [ = ]? It has a crossed-out square on it - no idea what this key could be for!

A hundred years ago, when I and home computers were still young, I owned a Schneider CPC Joyce computer. It was slow and , but - it was the only PC ever that was designed especially for writers! No wonder it was no commercial success… :cry:

But its keyboard had what I miss until today: A key for Copy! A key for Cut! A key for Paste! Obviously, this system was designed by somebody who knew a bit about what it means to write.

That’s an “Amstrad” in the rest of the world, btw. :wink:

Keys for cut, copy, paste would be great. But one thing that really pleased me when I switched to the Mac was that you press the function key with your thumb - unlike Windows keyboards where you press Control with your little finger. I immediately found it to be much more ergonomic - but I guess for others it’s exactly the other way round.

Just coming back from typing Ctrl-q Shift-p to type an en-dash in FrameMaker Windows – so, no, I cannot support your view on Mac’s inferiority when coming to keyboard shortcuts. :slight_smile:

Paolo

How true!

I could find one: the Das Keyboard III, based on excellent Cherry mechanics. Cherry themselves no longer make a keyboard based on these mechanics, so I guess I must take care of it, because a replacement is unlikely to exists during a forthcoming future. This keyboard only exists with the US or blank ANSI or ISO layout. Rhe lack of a modern Italian layout is not a problem for me, since I use an older layout I created starting from the former Apple layout (derived from Olivetti typewriters). So, I took the ISO blank keyboard, and have finally learnt to type without looking down at the keys. It’s a pleasure to use.
daskeyboard.com/

I admit that I also like the keyboard of my Samsung NC10 netbook enough. It remembers me of the iBook keyboard. Just a bit spongy, maybe, but precise.

This makes me think of the way older wordprocessors, like WordPerfect, used the F-keys for these basic tasks. I don’t know if you can add them to Scrivener’s Full Screen, using the System Preferences panel.

Paolo

Crap. I use the Scroll lock, print screen and sys req keys all the time. And my keyboard has a copy, paste, print, stop, again and help buttons that are well worn. Keyboard is from Sun micro systems and is USB. Works with the Mac. You will hate it though as it feels like trash. I prefer my mac wireless for feel.

scroll lock, print screen and sys-req do just what they say they do for the systems I work with. Stop the screen from scrolling and enabling you to use the up/down keys to see the buffer. Print the current screen to the default printer. Request the the system give you attention. Why they are not used on modern systems still baffles me.

If you really want the cut/paste keys contact Sun or a computer recycling shop. They should have one.

What I said: The keyboard is considered the most unimportant part of any computer system. 8)

This reminds me… When I was still at the university (means: long time ago), I once had to work at a brand new unix computer - I can’t remember the name, something like Targon or Target - that had a keyboard which I still consider the ultimate fail: Among other irritations, it had one key that simply caused the system to break down if you pressed it! :laughing: Pure and simple. The “system failure key”.

Funny, but at that time one was very much used to mysteriously behaving machines, so nobody cared much about it. The solution was as simple: Just don’t press this key. :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh, I just gave a look to my Apple Extended Keyboard II. The F-keys mask has the Cut, Copy and Paste icons. Those were times: nice feel, keyboards and computers made for writing (and in general producing).

Paolo

If I remember correctly those old apple keyboards are really sun micro systems repackaged and use a din 9 connector. I have seen a few din 9 to USB in one of the data centers. Let me see if I can get a manufacturer number and part code for you.

I was told to call sun. Not that it helps you at all. Sorry.

Well, on the other side…

Teachers are complaining we live in the “cut and paste era of the information age” - so maybe a keyboard with specific keys would support bad manners in an unfavorable way… :open_mouth:

Any hints what that key on the numeric keypad I mentioned means? The one above the 7? Left from [ = ]? With the crossed-out rectangle? I have no idea, and I’m curious…