Korean font makes an error using apostrophe

[nerulkim]

There is an error of too much space between two words whenever I type an apostrophe mixed with Korean fonts especially with Apple Myungjo. For instance, if I am writing following (individuals’ability) with an apostrophe, the space between individuals’ and ability become wider than normal as I am using Koreans font(apple myungjo) on the same page. But if I change Apple Myungjo (Korean font) to Times the space becomes normal.

There is no similar problems using only English but mixing with Korean. Could you fix this bug on using Korean and english together, please?

You can find the different space in the attached picture.

[xiamenese]

This is a font problem when using CKJ fonts.

Fonts like STSong for Chinese or Apple Myungjo for Korean all include versions of the letters of the Roman Alphabet more or less correctly spaced, but they only use the punctuation characters designed for Chinese, Korean or Japanese, which are “monospaced” and take up the same space as the other characters or hangul.

用汉语宋体，the problem，of wrongly spaced punctuation in the font，is 一样。

I’m afraid you need to switch to a proper Roman font, like Times, whenever you wish to enter English within your Korean. Can I also point out that: in your screen shot with Times, you have a red underline at ‘individuals’ability’ precisely because there is no space after the apostrophe as you have to put the space in yourself; in the Apple Myungjo example, there seems to be a space which looks too large, but you still have the red underline because that space is part of the apostrophe and there is no ‘space character’ between the words.

As improper as this suggestion might sound, it might be easiest to set Scrivener to use English as its default language with the default text style in Times, and then switch keyboard entry to Korean when you write, switching back to English for any English inclusions. That way it will use proper Roman punctuation in your English, but will use Korean punctuation in the Korean text. The system will automatically choose the Korean font most similar to Times.

Hope that helps.

Mr X

[nerulkim]

Thank you for your immediate reply.

It doesn’t work using both Korean and English with New Times Roman font after changing Scrivener’s preference setting.

The things that I changed in preference setting of scrivener are following.

1. Appearance Fonts (Times New Roman)
2. Corkboard Fonts (Times New Roman)
3. Formatting Notes font and other fonts (Times New Romans)

I wish,there is no errors using other fonts for Korean.

Blessings.

[nerulkim]

I found the fact that there is still an error when I switch from Korean writing using Apple Myungjo to English which is still under the effect of Apply Myungjo english font. There is still huge space after using Apostrophe which is under the influence of Apply Myungjo.

I still have to manually change English sentence into Times New Roman font otherwise, it is still under the effect of Apple Myungjo which makes large space between two words after Apostrophe.

It is definitely a bug because other word processor such as MS-Word doesn’t have same issue using both Korean and English on the same sentence.

Fix this bug, please.

[xiamenese]

There is no point comparing Scrivener with Word, or even Apple Pages. Microsoft is big enough and wealthy enough to have their own engineers write their own text engine for Word, and I haven’t used Word since Apple launched OS-X around 2002 and I could no longer use Word 5.1.a, so I have no idea what happens in recent versions. Similarly Apple Pages doesn’t use the Apple text engine either, but Apple have created another proprietary engine to use in Pages.

The point is, if this is a bug, it is Apple’s bug not Scrivener’s as Scrivener uses the Apple text engine, and other apps which use the Apple Text Engine ought to exhibit the same behaviour. Now, I can’t test using Korean, but I do use Chinese; however, as a native English speaker, my system language is British English and the default language in Scrivener is English. I have my keyboard set up with the menu and shortcuts to switch between English and Simplified Chinese. My default text style is EBGaramond — I loathe Times New Roman — and when I switch to typing Chinese, the font switches to Songti SC I think but without showing it in the Font button, using Chinese punctuation, and when I switch back to English, it goes back to EBGaramond with proper Roman punctuation including apostrophes. The only time it doesn’t do it is if I move the cursor within the Chinese and then to the end of that stretch before switching to English. It then remains in the Chinese font, but uses the Roman characters within that but Chinese punctuation.

That said, I have just made a quick test in TextEdit — which is the comparison one should make — and typing Chinese and then switching to English without switching to a proper Roman font now seems to access the Roman punctuation, rather than the Chinese punctuation … suspension points are in the Chinese position though. On the other hand, the Roman characters in Songti SC, particularly the ‘a’ are awful, and generally badly kerned.

In conclusion, it seems that Apple may have made adjustments in the El Capitan version of TextEdit, or may have fixed the punctuation access in their Chinese fonts. It seems they haven’t done it in Apple Myungjo though.

Another difference on my machine is that up until El Capitan, I used a third party Chinese text entry system, which sadly seems to be buggy under El Capitan so I’ve switched to the Apple text entry system, which has been improved apparently. That too might be making the difference with accessing the correct punctuation codes.

So, I’d check against TextEdit, and also look into the text entry system you are using for Korean. In the meantime, perhaps Keith or someone on the team will take note of this and investigate at a deeper level, whether there have been changes to the text engine which are not yet reflected in Scrivener, though I imagine that that is unlikely.

Mr X

PS I am merely a long time, happy user of Scrivener, but one who uses it in English and Chinese, but am not part of the team.

[nerulkim]

Thanks for your helpful reply.

Yes, my default language is also English on Mac with El-Capitan, and Korean is the second preference language switching with english.

Your description is same with my issue when I switch english into Korean in the middle of a word. I do hope that this issue disappears ASAP.

[AmberV]

Did you try testing in TextEdit, as suggested? If so you need to be reporting these bugs to Apple.