Move / add items in search results?

[Biff]

How can I move / manage / add items (by drag & drop) in the search results without clicking through (context) menus?

And how can you drag and drop (move / copy) items from the scratch pad to the Binder / items in the Binder / to the search results?

When I try to remove items in the search results with the shortcut (SHIF+DEL) nothing happens? How could I make it work?

[AmberV]

Search results are just that, the results of a search and as such you do not have direct control over those results. Indirectly, your level of control is determined by the nature of the search criteria of course.

But if you do want to take a list of items that is the result of a search and then prune it yourself, that’s easy to do:

1. Hit Ctrl-A in the binder sidebar to select the results.
2. Use the Documents/Add to Collection/New Collection menu command, or use the + button in the collection header bar, if you have the tabs open, to quickly create a new collection tab with the selected items assigned to it.

This is a good way of “freezing” a search result or editing it.

[Biff]

Search results are just that, the results of a search and as such you do not have direct control over those results.

I am not quite sure, whether I understand that, sounds a bit…well…

Indirectly, your level of control is determined by the nature of the search criteria of course.

Hmmm, not quite sure, a direct, easy, convenient manner would be good.

 Hit Ctrl-A in the binder sidebar to select the results.
Use the Documents/Add to Collection/New Collection menu command, or use the + button in the collection header bar, if you have the tabs open, to quickly create a new collection tab with the selected items assigned to it.

This is a good way of “freezing” a search result or editing it.

Sorry, I am not quite sure to understand it right, I can proceed like this to indirectly achieve this obviously:

How can I move / manage / add items (by drag & drop) in the search results without clicking through (context) menus?

So, how can I do this? Sorry again.

And how can you drag and drop (move / copy) items from the scratch pad to the Binder / items in the Binder / to the search results?

When I try to remove items in the search results with the shortcut (SHIF+DEL) nothing happens? How could I make it work?

[AmberV]

Hmmm, not quite sure, a direct, easy, convenient manner would be good.

Indirect can be each of these things save for direct. If you are searching for the keyword “Orange” and do not want a particular item to respond to your search for items with the keyword “Orange”, then removing that keyword from the document would accomplish the result, no? This can be done right from the search result list itself using the inspector.

How can I move / manage / add items (by drag & drop) in the search results without clicking through (context) menus?

Could you provide some practical examples of what you mean? I don’t really know what it means to add an item to a search result without changing that item so that it fits the criteria of the search result.

When I try to remove items in the search results with the shortcut (SHIF+DEL) nothing happens? How could I make it work?

Are you try to trash items from a search result? In that case you need to reveal the items in the binder first (Ctrl-Shift-8) then use that shortcut. Trashing directly from the list is disabled as many people would mistake it for removing it from the list, which even though that doesn’t make much sense, it may not even do because technically a trashed document can still be found with a search and legitimately be in the list.

And how can you drag and drop (move / copy) items from the scratch pad to the Binder…

See pg. 100 of the user manual, under §10.3, Scratch Pad Panel, with regards to the “Send file to Scrivener” button. There is no drag and drop though.

[Biff]

Indirect can be each of these things save for direct. If you are searching for the keyword “Orange” and do not want a particular item to respond to your search for items with the keyword “Orange”, then removing that keyword from the document would accomplish the result, no?

I am not quite sure, I would say, yes, although I cannot understand the context, sorry.

Could you provide some practical examples of what you mean? I don’t really know what it means to add an item to a search result without changing that item so that it fits the criteria of the search result.

Sorry for the bad expression. You search for “Orange”, 10 items in the Binder are shown. Then you drag one of those items (or more) to another item in the search result to move / copy / add it to it, but drag & and drop does not work here, obviously. And transferring an item from the search result to an item in the Binder outside the search result is - as far as I can see - quite inconvenient (like [re-]organizing). Using the Outliner doing this either. You have to show the items / an item another item shall be transferred to in the outlliner, then in the search result drag the item to the item in the outlinder, then, to edit / merge the transferred tem(s) show it / them in an editor or both editors, after going back to the starting position and so on. May be there is a better manner.

To open the same project twice (or more than twice) would be good, so you could transfer items between them easily (I guess).

Are you try to trash items from a search result?

Above all from the Binder, I would say, completely.

In that case you need to reveal the items in the binder first (Ctrl-Shift-8) then use that shortcut.

Yes, that was the way I did it, but that appears to be extremely inconvenient.

Trashing directly from the list is disabled as many people would mistake it for removing it from the list,

May be an option would be great to decide individually.

which even though that doesn’t make much sense, it may not even do because technically a trashed document can still be found with a search and legitimately be in the list.

And “Activating exclude Trash” would not help?

See pg. 100 of the user manual, under §10.3, Scratch Pad Panel, with regards to the “Send file to Scrivener” button.

Thank you, yes, I had done, it appears to be quite circumstantial. Why not drag and drop?

Many thanks

[AmberV]

And transferring an item from the search result to an item in the Binder outside the search result is - as far as I can see - quite inconvenient (like [re-]organizing). Using the Outliner doing this either. You have to show the items / an item another item shall be transferred to in the outlliner, then in the search result drag the item to the item in the outlinder, then, to edit / merge the transferred tem(s) show it / them in an editor or both editors, after going back to the starting position and so on. May be there is a better manner.

Okay, understanding better what you are referring to, I was going to recommend using the editor split views to your advantage. They are there to make this kind of organisation work easier, especially when working from a list in the sidebar other than the binder. Your description of how to do so does seem a bit more convoluted than how I approach this myself. I do use collections and search results to organise things, but I guess I’ve never found it inconvenient to have two or more panes in which to do so. You asked for a method that doesn’t involve contextual menus, isn’t this a visual and easy way to do that though?

Oh one thing that might help is switching off the preference to load folders as text in search results, in the Navigation settings tab. That way when you click on a folder it pops up in corkboard/outliner view immediately, and you drag your item into the intended location with one step.

Yes, that was the way I did it, but that appears to be extremely inconvenient.

Bottom line though is that an action like this that where we’re talking about—trashing items from the binder with zero visual feedback—yeah, a little inconvenience is demonstrably necessary and good. We’ve gone through periods of design where it was easier to delete things—it wasn’t pretty.

If you can think of something that is (a) not easy to accidentally do and (b) doesn’t have a safety step involved, let me know.

And “Activating exclude Trash” would not help?

That’s an optional feature though, and the problem I was highlighting is something that would happen under ordinary circumstances.

Thank you, yes, I had done, it appears to be quite circumstantial. Why not drag and drop?

It’s probably a technical limitation; I’ve added a note for the developers to look into it as this is a capability that should be there for the sake of intuitive behaviour.

[Biff]

Your description of how to do so does seem a bit more convoluted than how I approach this myself.

Yes, I could imagine there are better ways (for example your one) but I am not able to do it like that.

I do use collections and search results to organise things, but I guess I’ve never found it inconvenient to have two or more panes in which to do so.

The inconvenience is not caused by the (amount of) panes, but by the manner of handling, I would guess. Just two plain panes / windows (like they are usually used in many file managers) showing the (same) items in the Binder would be sufficient, I assume.

You asked for a method that doesn’t involve contextual menus, isn’t this a visual and easy way to do that though?

No, no, it is not for me, it is unbelievable cruel to navigate through the menus again and again, find / search for the (same) destination item (again and again).

Oh one thing that might help is switching off the preference to load folders as text in search results

Yes, but I would have to re-switch it again (and back) all the time when I need to see text before transferring or so. A good idea though.

If you can think of something that is (a) not easy to accidentally do and (b) doesn’t have a safety step involved, let me know.

Well, I have any idea of anything, but as a none brainiac I would say just let Scrivener give a message like “Remove item(s) from the Binder? Cannot be undone” or so. But of course this would be too easy so it cannot be a good idea and of course I know you would already have had that idea a very long time ago, so…

And “Activating exclude Trash” would not help?

That’s an optional feature though, and the problem I was highlighting is something that would happen under ordinary circumstances.

Sorry, I am not quite sure, which problem?

It’s probably a technical limitation; I’ve added a note for the developers to look into it as this is a capability that should be there for the sake of intuitive behaviour.

That sounds great, thank you.

[AmberV]

Yes, but I would have to re-switch it again (and back) all the time when I need to see text before transferring or so. A good idea though.

Have you tried it yet? That’s not how it works. When this option is disabled, group views revert to working how they do in the binder: if you switch to viewing folder text (Ctrl-3 to flip the Outliner off for instance), then that is how you will go on viewing folders until you press Ctrl-3 again. The navigation default option overrides this normal behaviour so that text is always shown no matter what the view mode is. The option in its disabled state thus provides more flexibility—enough so that having the option one way or the other doesn’t really matter too much, unless you do want to go back to always and without exception viewing groups as text.

Well, I have any idea of anything, but as a none brainiac I would say just let Scrivener give a message like “Remove item(s) from the Binder? Cannot be undone” or so. But of course this would be too easy so it cannot be a good idea and of course I know you would already have had that idea a very long time ago, so…

As you suspect it’s something we’ve rejected for other methods. You’ve described an alternative that:

• Doesn’t fulfil the premise of lacking a safety stop, it is the very definition of a safety stop.
• Has a net human interface difference of one key press on a hand that otherwise isn’t moving, from a finger that is otherwise not doing anything.
• Involves a UI mechanism (warning dialogue) that has only one purpose (safety stop) versus a safety mechanism that isn’t merely a halt in a potentially dangerous method, but is in fact a flexible branching point in a workflow stream (reveal search results in binder).

Your method only serves one purpose, ours serves thousands, and for the price of one small finger pressing down at one point instead of doing nothing. Both are safety measures inserted into the workflow, but one is a workflow component capable of many other things. When you reveal in binder, trashing the items next is one thing you may do, but there are many other things you could do instead. A dialogue box does nothing. It is inert, serves no purpose other than to halt a human in a process that might have been triggered unwittingly.

It is also a notoriously problematic device in terms of human psychology in that you start clicking OK or pressing Enter automatically—over time it ceases to perform a good function as its use becomes habitual. Thus these sorts of tools are best used infrequently and for tasks where one might genuinely pause and think for a moment before proceeding (emptying the trash is a good one), reinforcing the strength of the mechanism as a safety stop.

No, no, it is not for me, it is unbelievable cruel to navigate through the menus again and again, find / search for the (same) destination item (again and again).

I’m still lost as to what you are doing specifically. At first it sounded like you were trying to drag an item into a folder located in the search result list. My suggestion was to click on that folder instead and then drag the item(s) into the outliner view to the right. Now you are talking about menus, and using the same target position over and over again. Why use menus if you can do what I just described instead?

If you are moving files into one place over and over again, then why not load the place into a split view, lock it, and get on with your life otherwise? Whenever you need to drop something there, the outliner is a huge target available for precise usage.

Or, if you have five target folders you regularly use no problem! Click on all five in succession in that split, and now you can effortlessly toggle between them with the history buttons or shortcuts (Ctrl-[ & Ctrl-]). It’s functionally equivalent to having five Explorer windows spammed all over your screen, except without the window spam.

Say that’s still not enough and you still need to use the Move To menu now and again. Add the frequently used folders you target to Favorites (right-click in the binder) and now they show up at the top of the menu, no drilling down.

The inconvenience is not caused by the (amount of) panes, but by the manner of handling, I would guess.

Well I can only guess as well then, without any specifics. My guess is that as you learn how the program works you’ll find ways to make it work for you, rather than struggling against it. That is how it usually goes with software that is designed to be flexible rather than rigidly forcing you down locked (but convenient I suppose for one purpose) feature paths.

[Biff]

Have you tried it yet? That’s not how it works. When this option is disabled, group views revert to working how they do in the binder: if you switch to viewing folder text (Ctrl-3 to flip the Outliner off for instance), then that is how you will go on viewing folders until you press Ctrl-3 again. The navigation default option overrides this normal behaviour so that text is always shown no matter what the view mode is. The option in its disabled state thus provides more flexibility—enough so that having the option one way or the other doesn’t really matter too much, unless you do want to go back to always and without exception viewing groups as text.

Yes, I have tried it, but at the moment I am not quite sure (anymore), if I have tried it correctly / sensfully. At the moment - while testing - that way works very well.

As you suspect it’s something we’ve rejected for other methods. You’ve described an alternative that:

Doesn’t fulfil the premise of lacking a safety stop, it is the very definition of a safety stop.
Has a net human interface difference of one key press on a hand that otherwise isn’t moving, from a finger that is otherwise not doing anything.
Involves a UI mechanism (warning dialogue) that has only one purpose (safety stop) versus a safety mechanism that isn’t merely a halt in a potentially dangerous method, but is in fact a flexible branching point in a workflow stream (reveal search results in binder).

Your method only serves one purpose, ours serves thousands, and for the price of one small finger pressing down at one point instead of doing nothing. Both are safety measures inserted into the workflow, but one is a workflow component capable of many other things. When you reveal in binder, trashing the items next is one thing you may do, but there are many other things you could do instead. A dialogue box does nothing. It is inert, serves no purpose other than to halt a human in a process that might have been triggered unwittingly.

It is also a notoriously problematic device in terms of human psychology in that you start clicking OK or pressing Enter automatically—over time it ceases to perform a good function as its use becomes habitual. Thus these sorts of tools are best used infrequently and for tasks where one might genuinely pause and think for a moment before proceeding (emptying the trash is a good one), reinforcing the strength of the mechanism as a safety stop.

Oops, alright, I see, bless me, whew, it appears to be extremely more complicated than my poor imagination can tell me, I should not have said that at all.

I’m still lost as to what you are doing specifically. At first it sounded like you were trying to drag an item into a folder located in the search result list

Sorry for my extremely bad expression, but, yes, yes, that is absolutely right, I was trying it.

My suggestion was to click on that folder instead and then drag the item(s) into the outliner view to the right.

Yes, to a folder or a document, thank you for the suggestion, very useful.

Now you are talking about menus, and using the same target position over and over again.

Yes, the same or another one.

Why use menus if you can do what I just described instead?

I do, I do. Of course, very great idea. Sorry again for my unbelievable expression, I tried to say the opposite, something like I do not like navigating through menus. I do not want to click through the (context) menus.

If you are moving files into one place over and over again, then why not load the place into a split view, lock it, and get on with your life otherwise? Whenever you need to drop something there, the outliner is a huge target available for precise usage.

Yes, I will keep on trying using this manner and I will intensively try it at the next productive real situation again. At the moment I am not able to reproduce the situation I had problems with.

Or, if you have five target folders you regularly use no problem! Click on all five in succession in that split, and now you can effortlessly toggle between them with the history buttons or shortcuts (Ctrl-[ & Ctrl-]). It’s functionally equivalent to having five Explorer windows spammed all over your screen, except without the window spam.

Say that’s still not enough and you still need to use the Move To menu now and again. Add the frequently used folders you target to Favorites (right-click in the binder) and now they show up at the top of the menu, no drilling down.

Thank you, I will do it like this, sounds very good.

Well I can only guess as well then, without any specifics. My guess is that as you learn how the program works you’ll find ways to make it work for you, rather than struggling against it. That is how it usually goes with software that is designed to be flexible rather than rigidly forcing you down locked (but convenient I suppose for one purpose) feature paths.

Yes, yes, that’s true of course, very right. After some time I will get used to Scrivener, I am sure.

Very many thanks