Suddenly 2 instances / windows of the same project: text added to one not shown in the other - afraid of losing text

Scrivener Scrivener for Windows
1

I just noticed the main window (with the binder, two editors, etc.) of the same project is shown twice, a little differently, identical path / name. I added text to the same doc of one of the editors of those two windows of the same project. But the new text is shown only in one of the same docs of those two windows. So I assume I all the time added / edited text in one or both of them without noticing it, over many days or some weeks. And I am extremely afraid now to lose text / edits. That would be the worst case.

How could I proceed now? How can I make absolutely sure not to lose any text / edits (if not happened already, what I would think)? How can I show / find out the text / edit differences between those two windows? Or is there just anything I am missing?

2

Are you sure they are the same project? That is, is it possible that you saved a duplicate copy, and now have both the original and the duplicate open?

3

To help with this, in the General tab of File ▸ Options... there is an option to display the entire file path in the title bar. That could help see where these two projects are stored and determine which is the one you really want to work in (and help you handle the other one, whether to delete it or rename it after closing the project).

4

Are you sure they are the same project?

Yes, I am, cannot see another option.

That is, is it possible that you saved a duplicate copy, and now have both the original and the duplicate open?

No (usable) copy open, no (usable) copy available. No (usable) copy here at all besides of the (zipped) back ups. Only the / one original.

To help with this, in the General tab of File ▸ Options… there is an option to display the entire file path in the title bar.

Already activated, entire path shown. That is why I meant it is the identical, same path.

What could I do now? Anything I might be overlooking?

5

I made a back up of both instances / windows to zip files after adding some text to one of the instances and unzipped both of the back up files and compared the content of the files / folders with a sync program.

It shows the new text I added to one of the instances is saved in a file named search.indexes. Why is that? I never searched for that new text. And there is no other place that new text was found.

6

I made the back ups by pressing CRTL+S in each of the instances according to Scrivener’s back up options.

Where is the edit option of the posts here?

7

When Scrivener automatically immediately saves after inserting text, how can it be that there are two different back ups when saving in each of the two instances? One with the new text and one without the new text?

8

That is a plain-text index of your content, for use when you search. It’s not a history of your searching.

Your issue is a very bizarre one. I’ve never seen it happen, but I guess maybe you double-clicked fast enough that Scrivener opened it twice before adding the lock? As you write in one, it saves to the disk after a brief pause, but the other instance won’t load that new text from the file on your hard drive, so that’s why it’s not appearing in both places.

I assume you have CTRL-S mapped to trigger a full backup copy, and that you’ve verified that the back up copies are being created in the backups folder? If so, then make a copy of your backup outside of the backups folder. Open it too. Verify that the text you’ve been working on lately is in it. If so, close out all of your projects.

Open your main project again, and check for the text you expect to be in the editor. If it’s not there, replace it with the backup you just opened to verify that it contained your text.

9

but I guess maybe you double-clicked fast enough that Scrivener opened it twice before adding the lock?

Well, I may be double clicked a / the file (just like usual) to open it (may be it started automatically after opening Scrivener or I clicked it in the menu “Window” or “Recent files” (cannot remember),. I cannot imagine to have clicked it four times behind each other (fast enough) to open a second instance (and if the effect of having two instances open is losing text it should be impossible to do such, I would think). But of course I can’t “rule anything” out.

As you write in one, it saves to the disk after a brief pause,

And so (of course) deletes the text / edits in the other one? How can I get back that lost text? So one instance deletes the edits / (new) texts in the other one.

I assume you have CTRL-S mapped to trigger a full backup copy
Yes, I have.

and that you’ve verified that the back up copies are being created in the backups folder?

I am not quite sure to understand. I have compared these back ups (done after having noticed the issue), may be four, six ones (a pair of both instances always) after unzipping the zips with each other with a sync program by their contents.

If so, then make a copy of your backup outside of the backups folder.

Why? Why not use the back ups (already unzipped)?

Verify that the text you’ve been working on lately is in it.

How would I do it? How would I find all of the edits / texts done over the last weeks?
And above all how could I find them if one instance had deleted (by automatically saving each time after entering text / edits) the edits / (new) texts of the other one?

If so, close out all of your projects.

Sorry, what does that mean? How to close out? Why all of my projects and not only the affected one? I generally have open about 6, 10 projects or so (I really do hope they do not encouter the same issue). They might be affected as well?

Open your main project again, and check for the text you expect to be in the editor.

So the affected one. But how am I supposed to remember all the ideas/thoughts/edits/texts I’ve typed in over the past few weeks? It seems to be absolutely impossible.

If it’s not there, replace it with the backup you just opened to verify that it contained your text.

Here I would say something like that again: And above all how could I find them if one instance had deleted (by automatically saving each time after entering text / edits) the edits / (new) texts of the other one?

Many thanks for your help!

10

just a bit of help as it’s late here.

He’s trying to do at least three things by suggesting copying the backup to another known place:

  • assuring nothing happens to that backup while it’s still critical
  • assuring you don’t create the unzipped Scrivener project in the backups directory
  • assuring you are clear exactly which project you open for potential recovery

In other words, safety…good to have especially when under tension of feeling something’s lost.

Also ‘close out’ was just wrong wording. He means assure all your Scrivener windows are closed, so that no project is open. I would close them all, then the pop-up window you get in that case. Unless you used settings so you don’t ge that.

Then you can start the opening and testing of the unzipped backup, which is out where you can find it.

And i see you have a large number of projects open – all the time? This is probably not a wise idea. However well Scrivener is coded, there are so many ways Windows can cause an error. This may have to do with why you lost text.

Multiplying that would be if you don’t shut down Windows itself say every few days, instead just closing the laptop.

I think having a set of projects open while you are doing something between them is likely fine, but then I’d cut the number down. And sensibly use Alt-F, Alt-X to close Scrivener again every few days. Done that way, it’ll open all your projects as they were, the next time.

I’ve often had 3 projects brought up on open together by this method, and not see issues, just to offer an experience.

As far as ‘checking for text’, I don’t know how you can expect to do anything else but use your memory, if you think a project has lost something. But you can compare the version you recovered from backup, to see where it differs from the apparently broken one. This may also help you recall what should be there. The backup’s date-time on the zip shoulld help you with this also, given the unzipped project looks healthy.

Go methodically, and there will be best results. And just think in future how computers and their software are not really appliances. There’s too much complexity for them ever to be perfect, or fixable with the screwdriver in your kitchen drawer :slight_smile:

One thing professionals of any subject do, is keep backups which are on a portable disk, as an example. You can copy your important projects to one of a set of USB cards you rotate per day, as a simplest example.

Best fortune, Doldut
Clive

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11

In other words, safety…good to have especially when under tension of feeling something’s lost.

Yes, that’s probably true. May be rage, frantic and such just fit better. May be the back ups are not that important at the moment as they will just contain a part of the text / edits. But good to have them anyway.

There are five projects shown with two instances. I guess, frantic and rage do not fit anymore as well. In Scrivener in the menu “Window” and “Recent Projects” all the open projects are displayed once. In the Windows system tray when I click the Scrivener icon five projects are shown twice.

He means assure all your Scrivener windows are closed, so that no project is open.

Why? I assume, the only way to get back some text / edits is to keep them open, that is the only place I could find those. When I close them that text / edits will be lost forever, I would think.

then the pop-up window you get in that case.

What pop up window?

Unless you used settings so you don’t ge that.

Sorry, what settings I need?

Then you can start the opening and testing of the unzipped backup, which is out where you can find it.

Yes, but I already did for comparing with a sync program) and it didn’t help. It cannot, I assume. Or what should I do now with these back ups?

Is there an undo / redo option that works project wide (so I could undo steps and see what changes I did in a single incstance of a project and copy all of the changes one by one to a bac)? Not only for a single folder / doc? Or how could I find out where, in what folders, files I did edits and added text?

And i see you have a large number of projects open – all the time?

Yes, they are.

This is probably not a wise idea. However well Scrivener is coded, there are so many ways Windows can cause an error. This may have to do with why you lost text.

So this means, Scrivener is coded quite bad. Yes, obviously. What are these ways? That sounds very odd, actually I would think, it is not a wise idea to not have open all of the projects one is working on. And then each time you have an idea / thought, new text, etc. you want to add on has to (re)open a project all the time. So why is it?

Multiplying that would be if you don’t shut down Windows itself say every few days, just closing the laptop.

Why? I do not want to start alle of the programs, windows, projects, etc. all the time after restarting Win.

I think having a number of projects open while you are doing something between them is likely fine, but then I’d cut the number down. And sensibly use Alt-F, Alt-X to close Scrivener again every few days. Done that way, it’ll open all your projects as they were, the next time.

Actually I would think a program shouldn’t work badly only because there are open some windows of it all the time. Like other programs work as well properliy, Firefox, Word, OpenOffice, Thunderbird, etc. I do not know any program getting problems when there are windows open all the time. It just is usual, I would think. Why is Scrivener different? Only because of its bad coding?

As far as ‘checking for text’, I don’t know how you can expect to do anything else but use your memory,

Text, edits of a project done over the last weeks? And even for five projects? Oops, holy…That is…well…unbelievable…a great…well, I am not able to say something. First I would expect such cannot happen. Then I would expect there is a safety precaution if such happens.

But you can compare the version you recovered from backup,
But if - and like I said I assume it is like that and the comparisons of the back ups I did do suggest - both instances back up to the same file, what they are doing, each time the text entered of the other one is gone. Or am I missing anything?

Go methodically, and there will be best results. And just think in future how computers and their software are not really appliances. There’s too much complexity for them ever to be perfect, or fixable with the screwdriver in your kitchen drawer :slight_smile:

Would be a cool text for a service in a big church. Yes, of course, I will think of it when I get the screwdriver, hammer (for the computer) and pliers from the kitchen drawer.

One thing professionals of any subject do, is keep backups which are on a portable disk, as an example.

Well, this indeed is a very good idea, yes. If only I would not be such a lousy amateur. But now it’s too late.
But how could such a back up help here when both instances back up to the same file? So the text entered / edits done in one instance would delete (overwrite) the text entered / edits in the othter one and vice verca. And so on.

OK, thank you very much for your help, Clive!

12

Doldut, I’ll come back when I have some time.

Until then, you might consider if it is polite – or sensible – to return every advice with criticizing the software (when no-one else ever has your problem), trying to insist Windows must be perfect so you can do what you just want to (never restarting, unexpected numbers of windows, etc.), and just general attitude.

A little respect would help you. Not a sermon, an observation. The world will never be just what you yourself desire,as we all find out, and do better for that.

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13

Oh, yes, of course, don’t hurry, thank you very much!

Until then, you might consider if it is polite – or sensible – to return every advice with criticizing the software (when no-one else ever has your problem

Very sorry, but I didn’t even know I did that.

trying to insist Windows must be perfect

Sorry again, no, no I really don’t, how could I, I know Win ist rubbish.

Very sorry again, didn’t even notice missing respect, that would not have been intentional. Sorry again.

14

A great part of the difficulty in offering helpful suggestions is that the situation you’re describing is unique. It should not be possible for Scrivener to open two instances of a project on the same system as you’re describing, yet if I understand your comments correctly, you’re encountering this with five separate projects simultaneously and this state has been ongoing for weeks.

Could you share a couple screenshots of the same-project windows open side by side to help us see what you’re encountering? You should be able to do this easily by arranging the windows on the screen to both be visible (including the title bars with the file path) and then using the Win+PrtScn shortcut to save a screenshot of the full screen into your user Screenshots folder, which you can then add to a post here (just drag and drop the image into the text area where you’re typing, or click the upload button above it).

Also, I didn’t see it mentioned above—what version of Windows and what version of Scrivener you are using? You can check the latter in Help ▸ About Scrivener.

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15

Is it possible that you have two instances of Scrivener itself on your system? It’s definitely possible to have two copies of Scrivener running at once, and a problem with the project locking mechanism might allow both versions to attempt to access the same project at the same time.

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if I understand your comments correctly, you’re encountering this with five separate projects simultaneously and this state has been ongoing for weeks.

Yes, that is right. I assume, it must be ongoing for weeks, since the projects are open since then more or less, may be opened at the same time or one after another or so. May be the second instances or some of them appeared some later, I do not have any idea.

Could you share a couple screenshots of the same-project windows open side by side to help us see what you’re encountering? You should be able to do this easily by arranging the windows on the screen to both be visible (including the title bars with the file path) and then using the Win+PrtScn shortcut to save a screenshot of the full screen into your user Screenshots folder, which you can then add to a post here (just drag and drop the image into the text area where you’re typing, or click the upload button above it).

I would like to do it and I had already done it, but sorry, I cannot publish any information / images of the projects.

I have Version: 3.1.1.0 64-bit - 03 Nov 2021. And
https://i.imgur.com/BUbA3dK.png

Is it possible that you have two instances of Scrivener itself on your system?

Two installations? No, not by intention at least. I assume, Scrivener always overinstalls respectively always installs in the same path.

17

Would you be willing to send the screenshots privately to support? We treat all such materials confidentially, and I do think seeing what you’re encountering might help. You can email them to the windows support address instead, with a link to this thread for context.

Do you have any sort of sync or backup services running on the location where the projects are stored?

18

Would you be willing to send the screenshots privately to support?

I would like to, but sorry, I can’t.

Do you have any sort of sync or backup services running on the location where the projects are stored?

No, I do not. Just a usual hard drive / SSD offline.

19

OK, that’s fine. I’ll just drop a bunch of questions as I’m continuing to think on this, and maybe that will spark something. Apologies if any of these were already touched on above and I just missed it or wasn’t clear on the point.

  1. Are these projects stored locally on an internal hard drive? Are they within your user account’s file path (e.g. in your Documents folders, as opposed to belonging to another Windows user account)?
  2. I’m assuming from your comments that you see both main project windows for the same project simultaneously (as would’ve been shown in the screenshot), and that while these are both visible to you, you can work in either without it visibly impacting the other, e.g. typing in the editor when the same document is loaded or loading a different document, splitting the editor, etc. in one without it changing the setup of the other. Is that correct?
  3. What happens when you select the project name from Scrivener’s Window menu—do both main windows for the project come to the front?
  4. What happens if you select File ▸ Show Project in File Explorer from each of the project’s windows?
  5. Within the project’s .scriv folder revealed from (4), do you see more than one project file (with a .scrivx extension) or any files that appear to be duplicates (I don’t know what the naming might be—“copy” or “conflicted” or maybe a numerical suffix in the title)?

In the comparison of the search.indexes files of the two backups, did you find any other distinctions? If you search this for other text you know you added since the problem arose (not for the test here, but text that was added to the project when you were working normally), do you find it in both the files?

Have you also tried searching for any of the recent (not test) text a) within each of the open project windows, using the Project Search tool and b) within the two backups? In the latter case, you’d be seeking it within a “content.rtf” file within the Data folder.

Another something to try: If you add some text to a document in one of the projects and use Documents ▸ Snapshots ▸ Take Snapshot:

  1. Does the snapshot when viewed in the inspector contain that text?
  2. Does the text exist in the snapshot document within the project folder? (You should be able to find it by searching the folder for the text in File Explorer; use some unique text that won’t turn up in other documents to simplify this.)

If the text is saved into the snapshot, then at this point that would be my suggestion for preserving the text you have in each of the projects, working in this order:

  1. For the first window of the project, click into the binder and select View ▸ Outline ▸ Expand All
  2. Ctrl+A to select all in the binder
  3. Take a snapshot of all the documents that contain text by choosing Documents ▸ Snapshots ▸ Take Titled Snapshots of Selected Documents and provide a title (they’ll all have the same; I’m suggesting this vs. untitled so that there’s no confusion which these are)
  4. Create a zipped backup of the project via File ▸ Back Up ▸ Back Up To... and a unique, identifiable name
  5. Confirm that the backup contains the snapshots:
    1. Extract the project folder from the zip archive and rename it so it does not match the “live” project
    2. Open the project in Scrivener and open Documents ▸ Snapshots ▸ Snapshots Manager
    3. Look through the manager and ensure that the titled snapshot exists for all the documents (barring any that are blank, e.g. folders that contain no text themselves) and contains the expected text—particularly check the documents and shapshots that contain the text you added as a test earlier and any of the text you remembered having added in since the problem (as you searched earlier in the project search). The search bar at the top of the snapshots list in the manager will help with this.
  6. Once that’s done, if the text is preserved in the snapshots in the backup, close the backup project and close the project window from which you created the backup.
  7. Repeat the steps with the second project window, giving the snapshots a different title and the new backup a different name, so that you can be sure to keep the Window A and Window B versions distinct and identifiable.

If all of that works properly, then you should have two backups that contain the edits from the past weeks. From here you can then start working on bringing everything into a single project. I’d probably just get rid of the original (you could right-click the folder in File Explorer and create a zipped backup of that, too, before deleting the active folder, just in case you want it later); then choose one of the backup copies you just made to be the new version replacing it.

You could compare the two backups with your file comparison tool, to see if the you made snapshots differ between them. If they do then you’ll need to spend some time going through the corresponding documents and transferring edits from the second backup into the new main version. The best way to do this will likely vary depending on the sort of changes.

Probably you’ll want to open both copies side by side in Scrivener, then view the document and its titled snapshot in each and copy and paste changes (or manually type them). Another option is to drag and drop from one project to the other, which will also bring across the snapshot, and then work within the single project or replace documents that way, deleting an older version in favor of the newer. If you prefer, File ▸ Import ▸ Scrivener Project... will let you bring the entire second copy of the project (including the snapshots) into the binder of the main project without having to open the two together—then you can just work through that, deleting what you don’t want, copying text or moving documents into the Draft folder as needed.

You can also use the snapshot feature in Scrivener to compare versions by taking a snapshot of the document (you’ll already have the titled one taken before the backup), copying the text from the version of the document in the other backup copy and pasting it over the text of the document in the new main project, and then selecting the snapshot in the inspector and clicking Compare. You can then roll back the snapshot version or use the comparison to manually edit the document to incorporate all the changes.

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20

Thank you very much!

Is there an undo / redo option that works project wide (so I could undo steps and see what changes I did in a single incstance of a project and copy all of the changes one by one to a bac)? Not only for a single folder / doc? Or how could I find out where, in what folders, files I did edits and added text?

When starting a project nomally the entire project is loaded in Scrivener (once) and displayed. Is the same project after the first loading completely or partially at any time loaded again to Scrivener / the interface (to one of the two instances of the same project) while it is open? If not, would it mean the entire (new) text added / (new) edits done in the one and in the other instance are each still available in the corresponding instance? So If I did 100 edits and added 100 pages / docs / folders of text in / to one insctance of the same project since the problem arose and 99 edits and 99 pages / docs / folders in / to the other instance are the 99 edits and 99 pages / docs / folders still available in the one instance and its back up and the 100 edits and 100 pages / docs / folders available in the other instance and its back ups?

Are these projects stored locally on an internal hard drive?

Stored / edited on an external USB hard drive. Scrivener is running on an internal SSD.

Are they within your user account’s file path (e.g. in your Documents folders, as opposed to belonging to another Windows user account)?

No, they aren’t, see last answer above.

I’m assuming from your comments that you see both main project windows for the same project simultaneously

When I arrange them (the windows of the both instances of the same project) accordingly, yes.

and that while these are both visible to you, you can work in either without it visibly impacting the other, e.g. typing in the editor when the same document is loaded or loading a different document, splitting the editor, etc. in one without it changing the setup of the other. Is that correct?

Yes, it is.

What happens when you select the project name from Scrivener’s Window menu—do both main windows for the project come to the front?

No, they don’t, only one of them, the same one each time, scaled down each time although it was full sized before.

What happens if you select File ▸ Show Project in File Explorer from each of the project’s windows?

Then the main folder is shown in the Explorer (like it should be, I assume).

Within the project’s .scriv folder revealed from (4), do you see more than one project file (with a .scrivx extension) or any files that appear to be duplicates (I don’t know what the naming might be—“copy” or “conflicted” or maybe a numerical suffix in the title)?

No, I don’t. Looks like it should do, I would say.

In the comparison of the search.indexes files of the two backups, did you find any other distinctions?

If I remember it correctly only the last new text added to one of the both instances was the only difference. When I added two different texts to each of the both instances they were displayed respectively in the corresponding back up, if I remember it correctly.

Have you also tried searching for any of the recent (not test) text a) within each of the open project windows, using the Project Search tool

Yes, I did. The unique text was found only in the instance I had added it to. Not in the other one.

and b) within the two backups? In the latter case, you’d be seeking it within a “content.rtf” file within the Data folder.

I did this:

added this text to a doc of one of the two insctances of the same project:
	aaaaaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbbbbccccccccc
and this to the same doc:
	aaaaaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbbbbcccccccccdddddddd
and added this text to a doc of the other of two insctances of the same project:
	xxxxxxxxyyyyyyyzzzzzzzzzz
and this to the same doc:
	xxxxxxxxyyyyyyyzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiii

I made two "normal" unzipped back ups (pressing CTRL+S) with Scrivener from each of these two instances

I searched the content(with another program than Scrivener) for this text in the back ups of these two instances and in the original project (folder):
	aaaaaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbbbbccccccccc
	
	that text above and that - aaaaaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbbbbcccccccccdddddddd - were found in
		the original project folder one time each (in search.indexes)
		
		and in the back up of one of the two instances one time each (in search.indexes)

I searched the content (with another program than Scrivener) for this text in the back ups of these two instances and in the original project (folder):
	xxxxxxxxyyyyyyyzzzzzzzzzz	

	that text above and that - xxxxxxxxyyyyyyyzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiii - were found in
		the original project folder one time each (in content.rtf)
		
		and in the back up of one of the two instances one time each (in content.rtf)
		
		and in the back up of the same instance one time each (in search.indexes)
		
		and in the back up of the other of the two instances one time each (in content.rtf)

What conslucion can by done by that? Especially for restoring, how to proceed to restore?

Another something to try: If you add some text to a document in one of the projects and use Documents ▸ Snapshots ▸ Take Snapshot:

Does the snapshot when viewed in the inspector contain that text?

Yes, it does.

Does the text exist in the snapshot document within the project folder?

Yes, it does. In content.rtf and .scriv\Snapshots\8540AD32-2B9C-48F8-8777-1F60E0E8D237.snapshots\2022-04-30-10-24-18+0200.rtf

If the text is saved into the snapshot, then at this point that would be my suggestion for preserving the text you have in each of the projects, working in this order:

OK, I will try all of that, work with that.

Thank you very much!