Sorry, but I’m comparing Mac’s fully functional, stable version 3.1.2 to Win’s fully functional, stable version 1.9.9. Still want to say it’s only months behind? The beta doesn’t count, because it’s not fully functional, it’s not stable and it’s not for sale. I will agree it’s only months behind … how many months is the question. In the meantime, L&L has already stated they won’t artificially delay any Mac upgrades just to give Windows a chance to catch up, so, yes, Windows continues to fall behind even as those two overworked Windows developers struggle to get 3.0 finished.
I know there are many Windows users who are happy to use the buggy beta for their main work despite L&L’s great big disclaimer. I’m waiting for the official release. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And occasionally expressing my frustration despite having insults hurled at me when I do.
He wants them to get it done in no time at all. He simply doesn’t understand what it takes to create a functioning application.
What he misses is that this gives him an external excuse to procrastinate, which is exactly what he is doing in here.
You guys are piling it on pretty thick.
I came here to check on the progress of the update, as I do from time to time. I find myself a little perplexed at the toxicity displayed here.
The software is almost two years behind the Mac OS release at this point. Now I am a patient guy, and I rarely feel ranting will give anything positive. But if someone chooses to voice their concern (in the right way, which I’d argue the original OP did not), I would say it is pretty valid.
And resorting to baseless attacks on their productivity is fallacious and unproductive in itself.
The position of Literature & Latte has always been – on all platforms – that we make no promises about future releases. You should purchase the software – or not – based on what it can (or can’t) do now, not what you might wish to see in the future.
Yes, we are aware that the Win Scrivener 3 release is quite a bit behind the Mac Scrivener 3 release. The reasons for that have been discussed at length. The progress toward Win Scrivener 3 is readily observable via the public beta versions.
While berating the development team may make you feel better, it will not make the release happen any faster. It might, however, cause the moderators to become grumpy. Note that berating each other may also cause moderator grumpiness: much as we appreciate the support, bludgeoning critics into submission is neither necessary nor appropriate.
Providing constructive and timely feedback on the beta versions is the most useful contribution you can make to the ultimate release of Windows Scrivener 3,
I’ve finished multiple works on Scrivener 1, so it has nothing to do with Scrivener acting as a perceived crutch. There are a ton of great features I would love to simply use, and I don’t understand what’s so “wrong” about wanting them.
Text to speech, for instance, is a brilliant way of doing self-edit passes since hearing content spoken out loud is a great way to hear “wrongness” and catch misspellings. That’s a feature of V3 (V2 for Mac, maybe?), so I don’t have access to it. Instead, I have to use a third party program, the best which require extra payments or make me trudge through extra steps to actually use it like in Google Docs.
These small features are literally the multiplicative strength of Scrivener. I could write an entire novel in notepad if I wanted to. It’s free and it works. But Scrivener offers so many features that make a writer’s life easier and more effective.
So, again, nothing to do with final content creation but just the process and desire for features promised and even given to other users who paid exactly the same price I did. If asking for that politely is childish and immature than I’d be more likely to question your absurd perception more than anything else, as it literally makes no logical sense.
It’s definitely niche, but I humbly believe that’s no excuse for lack of quality or parity. If they are running a successful business off of it, then there should be room for growth. Also, there’s a ton of writing programs out there, one that’s even slowly copying Scrivener’s UI and some of its features (Atomic Scribbler).
Many people don’t consider them inferior (I personally do), even to the new Scrivener. The fact that they are competing, however, doesn’t magically make them competent products and many are trying to focus on even more niche or overly broad features. That’s exactly why you see dominant products in a sea of far less popular alternatives, and why their biggest rivals look exactly like them. This is true for a lot of things in both business and design.
Atomic Scribbler, for example, is only interested in catering to zero nonsense writing for short story writers and novelists while Scrivener already has support for stuff like screenplays or storyboarding and is more complex because of it (which is why people say it has a learning curve, though I kind of disagree).
The toxicity is definitely offputting, but hardly surprising. It’s effectual fanboyism, to use a low-level term, and it’s pretty common throughout humanity. To some, such as a few of these posters, the object of their undying loyalty can do no wrong and they get upset at any and all perceived attacks.
It’s sad to see. They act like we’re idiotic or ungrateful, but a lot of us are neither. We simply want a discussion on what it would take to actually increase parity. Some posters, like lunk, are just being blatantly offense and devolving the agreement to something silly like procrastination or crutch-usage of Scrivener. Xiam is all sarcasm and no real discussion.
What do I want them to do? Maybe tell us what it would take for true parity. Double-sized team? More money? Is there truly no feasible way to speed up production?
And a statement was made about being only a few months behind, awkward as that is, as it’s been almost a year now (maybe more?) since Mac’s V3 release and improvements on it hasn’t stopped. So either the Windows time somehow actually is working faster than the Mac team or the Mac team isn’t doing anything, because a gap that large between full V3 releases seems like more than a case of a few months.
There’s nothing wrong in wanting things. Complaining when one doesn’t get everything one wants is what is wrong.
Text to speech is not a Scrivener thing on Mac. It’s a Mac OS thing. There are lot’s of stuff in Mac OS that is ready for any developer to use, and which do not exist in Windows, like text-to-speech. So when you “want” something you are literally asking the Win Scrivener developers to develop things that Windows lacks, not that Mac Scrivener has. If Windows had all the features that Mac OS has then it would be a less difficult job to keep version parity. But that’s not the case. Mac OS comes with a lot of stuff that Windows doesn’t have. So maybe you should send some of your complaints to Microsoft?
It’s only your perception that it’s complaining, and it’s not only rude but also arrogant to offhandedly decide that on your own. We want a discussion on why there’s no parity and maybe what can be done to change it because I find it difficult to believe that there’s no way for it to happen. If L&L simply admitted that they don’t care and have no interest in parity, then there would be no point in “complaining”. Things change exactly because of constant discussion; silence changes nothing, so I find your statement serves no real purpose but to attack others.
Windows actually has Text to Speech and this feature is also currently in the Windows beta of Scrivener 3 (that you supposedly use). It is not just a Mac thing.
Aside from just being wrong, your statement is also a bit aggressive. I’d appreciate it if you toned down the snark and sarcasm. You are, ironically, only whining about us “whining” and adding absolutely nothing to the discussion. You are basically, in more words than needed, telling us to “shut up” and that is doing no one any favors.
I’ve been visiting/participating on these forums for about 7 years (as a Mac and latterly occasional iOS user). Lately I’ve been baffled as to why some users – who are otherwise extraordinarily helpful and stocked full of advice and tips – insist on policing the boards and jumping in to argue with (and occasionally insult/denigrate) some posters who are critical of the company/software. I’ve been guilty of it myself. But there are just no benefits to that approach. It has become so pervasive that visits to this forum have become less enjoyable because of it.
Lit&Lat have patiently explained the reasons for the delays to iOS Scriv and Windows feature parity. They have demonstrated repeatedly that they are well able to engage with their customer base in a civil and professional manner. In my opinion, it would be best to leave them to continue to do so. Self-appointed board police make this forum – which was once the most pleasant software forum on the web – less enjoyable to peruse when looking for general tips, or to be useful to stumped users. I would urge those who feel the need to reply to posts in a manner that is not helpful, or constructive to the conversation, to think again.
I think that one of the reasons that some of us sometimes reply “in a manner that is not helpful” is that our initial attempts to be helpful are met with comments that are not very polite.
I have used both Scrivener and Scapple on Windows for a few years. Great stuff! Naturally, I am interested in when the release will be. I too find Q2 a bit vague.
So, is there anyone who actually knows enough to give a real prognosis on this board?
Regarding the general banter on mac vs. win I will indulge myself in leaving the following statement: Mac is actually NOT king everywhere. So upgrading the windows version shows a great care for the customer.
And yes, I can buy a mac but I prefer my win because they are better in-every-way. Sure, you can put a mac infront of me, but I will probably choose not to use it.
However, I want to keep on using Scrivener and Scapple, they are without comparison the most productive software out there.
So… pleeease make the upgrade for us windows users or at least tell us when it will be official and sturdy.
Oh my, I never realised this was an option? I moan about people on the internet and I get to have an excuse as to why I’m not writing as quickly / productively / talentfultively as I’d like?!
In that case: that Pigfender chap is an absolute bassoon! Probably the cause of everything that’s wrong with the world. What a talentless hack!
Sorry, the beta DOES count. Not because it’s ready to use (it’s not) but because it is a snapshot of progress. It is literally showing you that there is active work being performed and that the gap is being closed.
Okay, look, I’ve been in these forums a long time. Since I switched from Mac to Windows in 2013. I came from the OSX user base. I’ve been using Windows since. I’ve probably posted or commented enough that you could count it on fingers of Davos Seaworths half hand.
I just want to make sure we’re clear here that we’re not just assuming this is the perspective of all Windows Scrivener users. In the six years I’ve been in these forums - I know they don’t need me to say this - I have never once felt that he, nor any of the other long time Mac users that visit our section have treated anyone differently based on their choice of OS. They have in truth been rather helpful.
But more importantly I want to make it very clear that I personally have never felt slighted, less important or overlooked by L&L as a Windows user. They have been far and beyond more open with the process than most other companies are while also trying to be honest about needing to manage expectations. I just want to make sure we’re clear here that when you say windows users as a generalization you understand that you are not speaking for all of us.
There are many of us who understand this process and appreciate what goes into it. Does Scrivener make my writing more efficient? Yes. Does it prevent me from writing? Absolutely not. It’s a means to an end and one that I appreciate greatly every day, even as it catches up.
Also apologies for the Thrones reference but it’s only been two days and I’m still stoked.
… I think what you mean is you prefer Win, just as many prefer Mac. I have machines running Win 7, 10 and Mac and will say I prefer Mac. It suits me better, but apart from the lower tco of Mac (per IBM) and my preference for the stability and ease of use of Mac OS, I wouldn’t go as far as claiming ‘better in every way’.
Per Katherine, Win V3 will be released when it is ready and not before and no amount of badgering or ‘polite requests’ will change that.
As suggested, keep an eye on the beta forum and if inclined download and contribute. Feedback from beta testers is the best way to discover issues and drive the perfection of the program and it’s earliest possible release.
