WIndows 3 Release: My Thoughts

[system]

@jesuslpgc

2. Having to download an .exe every few weeks it’s now being released. See what I said before.
3. 1.9 it’s a product marginally cheaper but greatly lacking when compared to Mac’s v3. Windows dimes are as good as Mac’s- Products should be something similar and by golly after almost three years they’ve had time enough to deliver. I don’t think nobody does is harmed by venting their impatience… a way to remind the good people of Literature and Latte that they made a promise.
4. Perhaps old timers use this to vent their angst on new users that somehow feel that L&L are not being totally there. New users that watch videos online and see all the nice things that V3 has in other platforms. At this pace even Android users will have a more advanced app quite soon and we Windows users will still be bickering back and forward about the imminent release of Version 3.

2. Downloading a new update every couple of weeks is no big imposition. I and many others do it and enjoy the progress being made. With every download you get a better version. If that’s too much for you, don’t use the beta.

3. You’re vented your impatience again and again. L&L have addressed the delay, apologized for it. Get over it, No one (other than you) has suggested Win users $ aren’t as good as Mac. Some of us have paid $ for BOTH Win and Mac versions. The program was originally developed on Mac because the owner of the company and original developer used a Mac. The Win version was developed later to satisfy that demand. No plot to put Win users at the back of the queue, just reality. Those are the simple facts as to why the Mac version is ahead of the Win. Some have suggested the Mac version development be halted to wait for the Win version to catch up. No point in the sole Mac developer sitting on his hands when he can improve the program.

4. ‘Old timers’ have seen endless first posters whining about the delay, threatening to go elsewhere, demanding people be sacked and other consequences. If you read the other posts on the delays you’d see everything you’ve said has been said over and over again. ‘Old timers’ have dealt with L&L, respect the team and while we may be chomping at the bit and disappointed with the delay see no point in harassing the L&L team, suggesting they never intend to release V3, claiming Android will be here first and other totally unsubstantiated wild claims.

Android development depends upon the completion of the Windows project, using the same Qt tools. If you’d read the multiple posts on that you’d know.

[jesuslpgc]

Understood. Since many have complained before and three years it’s nothing we have nothing to complain about.

Ok good sir, I’ll leave your garden 'fore you sic your dogs on me.

[Prometheus]

@jesuslpgc

I consider that version 3 is vaporware.

Obviously, WinV3 is not vaporware - it’s literally right there, in beta form. And, it can be used to write. I’m doing it. So are others. You can be frustrated with the lack of a general release of WinV3, but let’s not be silly here.

[wburkett]

It is disheartening to continue to see Mac releases (3.1.4 on 10/10/19) and no Windows 3.0 release. Regardless of the number of developers working on it, or the progress they are making resolving bugs, the fact remains the release of the Scrivener Windows 3.0 is years behind the release of Mac 3.0 version. And I still wistfully recall the announcement that the Windows 3.0 version was “coming in 2018”.

[AmberV]

It is disheartening to continue to see Mac releases (3.1.4 on 10/10/19) and no Windows 3.0 release.

You evidently are not aware of the fact that this was a small bug fix release to patch some areas that were broken by a recent macOS update.

[lunk]

@wburkett

It is disheartening to continue to see Mac releases (3.1.4 on 10/10/19)

Why? What is it you need to be able to do while you write that only version 3 can do?
I was perfectly happy with 2.8 but upgraded anyhow.

[kewms]

@AmberV

It is disheartening to continue to see Mac releases (3.1.4 on 10/10/19) and no Windows 3.0 release.

You evidently are not aware of the fact that this was a small bug fix release to patch some areas that were broken by a recent macOS update.

What Ioa said. There have also been some recent critical updates to the release version of Scrivener for Windows. Are those also “disheartening?”

Katherine

[kewms]

@jesuslpgc

3. 1.9 it’s a product marginally cheaper but greatly lacking when compared to Mac’s v3. Windows dimes are as good as Mac’s- Products should be something similar and by golly after almost three years they’ve had time enough to deliver. I don’t think nobody does is harmed by venting their impatience… a way to remind the good people of Literature and Latte that they made a promise.

Where are you getting “almost three years” from? Mac Scrivener 3 was released in November, 2017.

Katherine

[devinganger]

@jesuslpgc

Been around the web sometime. Never heard that. Do you invent them as you see fit? Or are you trying to steer this post offtopic enough to provide the admins a reason to close it?

You’re cute when you’re needlessly complaining.

[Synth]

@devinganger

@jesuslpgc

Been around the web sometime. Never heard that. Do you invent them as you see fit? Or are you trying to steer this post offtopic enough to provide the admins a reason to close it?

You’re cute when you’re needlessly complaining.

was that useful or constructive?

[Ensorcell]

I think that what most people are feeling is frustrated. I too purchased the Windows version in expectation of Version 3 coming out soon. Did we buy the software before the Ver 3 release with knowledge that it was not yet ready? YES. Absolutely. But… When I purchased it , the web site insinuated, led me to believe, that version 3 for windows would be released before the end of the year. That was 2018. Now here is it well over 10 months after the suggested release date and it is still not available. They have done nothing, that I know of, that was legal wrong. However to give the belief, the hope, that the product would be released soon was misleading. In my experience once a product has gone into beta testing and/or is expected to release on a certain date, then it should be relatively soon if not before that date. 10 months or more later is excessive. Hence the reason many of us are unhappy about the situation.

I have worked in the computer industry for most of my working life. I can honestly say that if I was 10 months or more late in finishing a product or meeting a deadline I would most likely have been fired.

Scrivener Ver 3 was release on the macOS on the 20th of November 2017. That was almost 2 years ago. At that same time the best version for Windows was 1.9.7 which was released 6th of Oct 2016. The next update for windows was not until June 15 2018. It took 1 1/2 years to go from 1.9.7 to 1.9.8. That alone makes a statement.

When does someone draw a line and start throwing resources at getting Version 3 for Windows completed?

The web site currently stated “We expect to release Scrivener 3 for Windows later in 2019.” Remember when I purchased it it stated 2018. Will we still be waiting here next year looking at a statement that states 2020? Time will tell.

[Scribhneoir]

@kewms

There have also been some recent critical updates to the release version of Scrivener for Windows. Are those also “disheartening?”

Actually … yes.

Because those half-dozen critical updates are to fix a licensing issue that for some reason only affects Windows users and also because those half-dozen fixes haven’t permanently solved the problem. People were reporting a recurrence of the 3-and-6 threat within two days of the latest fix and there were a couple of people who reported being dumped back into trial mode. Sorry, but I do find this disheartening, even though I’ve been fortunate enough to not have had an issue since the 2-and-4 threat days.

[Scribhneoir]

@kewms

@jesuslpgc

3. 1.9 it’s a product marginally cheaper but greatly lacking when compared to Mac’s v3. Windows dimes are as good as Mac’s- Products should be something similar and by golly after almost three years they’ve had time enough to deliver. I don’t think nobody does is harmed by venting their impatience… a way to remind the good people of Literature and Latte that they made a promise.

Where are you getting “almost three years” from? Mac Scrivener 3 was released in November, 2017.

Katherine

Probably from the fact that in 2016 you announced there would be no more free updates for 1.9 because 3.0 was right around the corner. Fair enough, but it’s been three years since that announcement and all that can be said for a Windows release is that you’re right on track to miss all of 2019 as well.

[kewms]

Well, there’ve also been four free updates to Scrivener 1.9 since then. Which I assume the people using it welcomed.

Katherine

[devinganger]

@Synth

was that useful or constructive?

You don’t feel that it’s constructive when someone says you’re cute? I personally find it very constructive for my self-esteem, but your mileage may vary, I guess.

[devinganger]

@Ensorcell

I think that what most people are feeling is frustrated. I too purchased the Windows version in expectation of Version 3 coming out soon. Did we buy the software before the Ver 3 release with knowledge that it was not yet ready? YES. Absolutely. But… When I purchased it , the web site insinuated, led me to believe, that version 3 for windows would be released before the end of the year. That was 2018. Now here is it well over 10 months after the suggested release date and it is still not available.

Why does everyone bring this point up like it’s some sort of smoking gun? When that was the expected timeframe, that was the timeframe everyone (including L&L) expected. Nobody is happy about how long it has taken, least of all the devs and support folks. I can promise they are all far more unhappy about that necessity than anyone who comes to post a self-important screed here on the forums about how unhappy they are.

@Ensorcell

In my experience once a product has gone into beta testing and/or is expected to release on a certain date, then it should be relatively soon if not before that date. 10 months or more later is excessive. Hence the reason many of us are unhappy about the situation.

Oh, you’re cute too. Pop quiz: how long did Google keep Gmail in beta?

When the open beta testing for Scrivener 3.x started, they told us explicitly that the program was not feature complete and that it would take as long as it took. They gave us an estimate of how long they thought that would be. But many people out there see a date or ETA and take it as gospel truth instead of an estimate.

[system]

@Scribhneoir

Probably from the fact that in 2016 you announced there would be no more free updates for 1.9 because 3.0 was right around the corner. Fair enough, but it’s been three years since that announcement and all that can be said for a Windows release is that you’re right on track to miss all of 2019 as well.

L&L have acknowledged they are behind with more challenges than anticipated with V3, however it is already VERY useable and seems close to release.

You’ve expressed your displeasure, why keep flogging a dead horse? We all know it’s late, we’re all chomping at the bit, but from my perspective sick of the endless people piling on top with their 5c worth of displeasure.

[DavidR]

I think the divide we’re seeing is between long-time and relatively long-time Scrivener users (like me), on the one hand, and people who bought the program a year or so ago.

The former have been around long enough to get to know Lit & Lat and its staff, and appreciate their dedication, integrity, and hard work. We’re disappointed and chagrined about how long v. 3 is taking; but we also know how small a shop it is, how unwilling they are to ship an advanced beta as a finished product, and how useful either v. 1.9 or the advanced beta of v. 3 actually is.

The latter, as ensorcell exemplifies, bought a program that they thought was going to be updated to v. 3 in the very near future, based on statements L&L was making at the time. Those statements were regrettable and regrettably off-target, and L&L has regretted them, publicly and more than once. But that doesn’t change the fact that they were made, and that they raised certain expectations in new customers.

These two viewpoints reflect two different experiences, and I think we ought to be able to put down our pea shooters long enough to acknowledge that there is valid experience on both sides. Long-time users are not just being cultishly defensive; newer users are not just whining. And neither group is getting jack done that is worth anything while sniping and counter-sniping at the others (and do remember, it’s just pea shooters).

Ensorcell’s question “When does someone draw a line and start throwing resources at getting Version 3 for Windows completed?” seems reasonable, except that there just aren’t any more resources to throw. Please do remember the pittance you paid for Scrivener. It’s intentionally priced for starving artists to buy; but that means starving the development staff in turn.

Devinganger, you’ve helped countless people solve real, solvable problems on these forums (another thing that newcomers, focusing only on the release date issue, may not know). But IMO (note lack of H), snark like “self-important screed” and “Oh, you’re cute too” is worse than unhelpful. Put tacks in your pea shooter if you want; just be careful not to inhale. (And don’t try telling me I’m cute; I already know. )

Bottom line: very few people come here just to be aggravating: they’re frustrated, they need help, they want to help. A little bit of considering the other person’s perspective can go a long way toward (heh) de-visualizing whirled peas.

[devinganger]

@DavidR

Devinganger, you’ve helped countless people solve real, solvable problems on these forums (another thing that newcomers, focusing only on the release date issue, may not know). But IMO (note lack of H), snark like “self-important screed” and “Oh, you’re cute too” is worse than unhelpful. Put tacks in your pea shooter if you want; just be careful not to inhale. (And don’t try telling me I’m cute; I already know. )

But you are cute!

I try to be kind and helpful, I really do. It’s not always my first instinct, and I have had to cultivate it as a deliberate choice over my adult life. Having said that, watching people jump into a community and ignore all of the context while only focusing on their own narrow sense of entitlement, and doing so while going out of their way to crap on people, is not behavior I will ever again let slide.

People who pride themselves on brutal honesty (“I’m not insulting you, I’m just stating facts”) all too often spend so much time focusing on the “brutal” that “honesty” gets sacrificed. And I’m not down with that. If people are going to be bullies, I’m going to call them on it. If L&L don’t like that, they can delete my account now.

[takirks]

I have to be brutally honest… I think the people bitching about things relating to the release of 3.0 are hypocritical. If the L&L folks released a premature version as 3.0, then I’d be the one angry with them.

I find it actually refreshing that a software firm is actually doing the honest thing and acknowledging that what they have is not ready to go and serve as a tool for people to try to make a living with. Not many of the crooks in this industry (software) care about that minor point, and I find it amazing that L&L does. I’m actually more likely to continue to do business with them because of it.

I don’t think many people appreciate just how messed-up a lot of similarly industry-specific bespoke software can get. I have to use cabinet design software and digital takeoff software nearly every day at work, and I’m here to tell you, y’all have no idea what “half-baked” looks like. When you lose a day’s work to a known-yet-undocumented software bug that the technician tells you about in a bored, off-handed way…? Yeah. Probably a good thing none of the vendors I work with are within a casual drive, or I’d be in jail for assault.

Take your time, L&L. Get it right, then release it. I’ll buy it, and I would even contribute to a fund to help pay for development on top of it. I wish more software developers and vendors had the ethics not to foist epic half-assery on their customers.