As a writer, I dislike outlining up front because I have no clue and need to “discover” and flesh out the idea to a plausible plot. Once that happens I’m off to the races with both missive and outline.
As a editor, a outline makes for smooth turnaround, both in copy, revision, and particularly, communication, with a writer.
As a publisher, no outline, no publish. Brash statement, but in todays world… just sayin.
That said, the best outline is one that grows along with the missive as it is discovered, drafted and revised. I was impressed by Dean Wesley Smith in his book “Writing into the Dark”. One of his statements has persisted - “I outline as I go, after I have written a chapter.”
This is doubly so for screenwriters; beats, scenes, and outlines go well with each other.
Came across this today from Ada Palmer, which is apropos to this thread:
And to add a personal note: it’s important to me to write the whole story – which might well change quite a bit – so that I get to know the personalities, temperaments, and voices of my characters. This is probably the most enjoyable part of the whole process for me; and once I know what motivates them and how they will act, the story tells itself (within the original constraints, mostly).
Your thoughts resonate with regard to character description; there’s no way to outline that stuff up front. They’re gonna reveal themselves on their terms. We writers have to go thru an agonizing period of time that is the equivalent of the tension and conflict we try to create for the reader. I’ve learned a great deal about patience in this art form; and it is worth the ride, and the wait.
as legitimate a way of working as any other, I think. although, I would personally would have written that down in a separate document, for when you actually sat down to write that scene.
as far as my outlining process, I wrote down a summary prior to beginning my first draft. I don’t think that I looked at the outline even once. I relied on my memory of what happened in the summary. also, I ended up changing a lot. the middle section would have involved a Greyhound cross-country trip. the bus breaks down or they get throw out (I forget which) and then they hitchhike the rest of the way. but I changed that and my characters, in the actual novel, went by Amtrak.
important: you won’t really know or understand the characters until you actually begin writing the damn thing! this may mean that call upon them to do something out of character with your first draft. my solution: adjust the plot accordingly! make the story fit the characters, not the characters fit the plot.
I use it regularly. I have a lifetime license. It’s quite good although you do need to learn how to use it to take advantage of all its features. Especially in the latest version 4 it’s very interesting (you can track emotions). And even though version 4 is still in alpha, the developer claims it is the most stable version (more stable than 3) - I agree. I’ve been using it since version 2. By the way, if you use it for plotting only, it’s completely free. And it’s way better than the highly praised by writers Plotrr software. I tested Plottr software for several months and Aeon Timeline too (not only three but full versions) so I know how they compare. It does have some things that could be improved for example the research area is only plain text, so no pictures or tables… but it doesn’t really matter, not for me. I can highly recommend Causality.
Have to admit, I like what I see in Causality. It sorta combines the best of what I like about outlines and the metadata aspect of Aeon Timeline but in a Workflowy kind of way.
I’ve been using workflowy and dynalist for a while and appreciate the friction free way of moving elements around. They both serve a need when I want to quickly ponder specific contexts.
Gonna kick some more tires today. Color me speculatively seduced.
Spent several hours with Causality today and I am super impressed. From the ground up it retains referential integrity, if you will, between all objects and, so far, I’ve not witnessed orphans or fragments as a result of moving stuff around. They go out of their way to indicate relationship status between items without having to understand the application relationships. If something is not used (related), we’ll they place into an unused folder automatically. That is freaking awesome; protects me from me.
I particularly love the aspect of tracking cause and effect, whether you call it scene & sequeal or motivation reaction units, Causality makes this aspect of plotting and writing bullet proof (so far, for me).
The app will take a while to get used to but this developer has done way more in the UI to make these meta data interactions as easy as possible. This aspect has been implmented way better than plottr or aeon timeline. It is obvious the developers had experienced fiction & screen writers involved.
I’m in between missives and if I have another day like today, I may jump in with both feet and kick the tires for a new project.
Well, I did kick the tires and the shiny newness had worn off; for several reasons:
1.) As a timeline, Aeon Timeline is much better
2.) As an outliner, for me, it is too far down in weeds.
3.) With regard to meta data, it’s like the Research functionality is an add-on component; it should be integrated.
If I was doing episode series routinely, I would jump on the bandwagon. But, for me, Causality doesn’t work.
And, it has some oddities that rub me the wrong way: it does not install as an app in Windows. It is too strange, in this day and age, to have to open a command session to deinstall and run registry commands to deal with an app. Plus, there is not alot of buzz by others using it. Something hinky about it and the company(s) behind it.
Another shiny thing chased… but Scrivener Wins Again!
I tried it a few years back and was initially quite impressed, but thought it needed some work if it was going to be useful for novels, rather than screenplays. I had quite a long email exchange with the developer because I thought it showed a lot of potential, and would be brilliant as a planning tool if it could link to Scrivener – either as a one-off dump, or ideally as two way sync à la Æon Timeline.
He wasn’t interested and clearly felt that nobody should ever want any more writing / editing features than were provided. When I told him that in reality it was missing many very useful Scrivener features, which I listed, he said that he’d asked a friend who’d used Scrivener and he’d never used any of those features, so there…
I’ve tried it a couple of times since – just for the planning tools – but it’s never stuck.
In addition to what I mentioned about the non standard install, there is very little out there about using it for longform. There own videos are two major releases behind.
The product seems to be aimed at their own screenwriting courses.
When I finally got down into the details of using it for longer sequences of prose, I got lost in the complexity. Scenes seem to get lost in the mix; I get that… screenwriting is more about beats and quick shifts and not alot of backstory. I found groups and lanes to be confusing; it’s like I have to devise a translation layer between what I’m wanting to do and Causality’s scene, group, and lane concept. They should at least have a template for “Novel” and then rename the grouping elements that have meaning within a plot and structure format; how a longform writer thinks, not a screenwriter.
I’m back to using a split toggle of Outlner (of the manuscript) & Scrivenings along with Notes… tried and true. There’s merit, at least for me, to sticking with a “slow work” approach. I use collections via saved searches to tag and status blocks in prose and in notes.
When I need a timeline, the interface between Scrivener and Aeon Timeline is wonderful and I use the Subway view to relate character, plot, and theme elements into a visual that works for me.
Maybe Causality was just too shiny. Like you mentioned above, i really wanted to believe in it, but as as a fiction writers tool, they have bit of work to do.