Known Bugs for Beta 024

Scrivener Scrivener for Windows
1

All right, gang, it’s still not midnight here so technically I have gotten this up “later today” as promised. 8) As the title suggests, this is the Known Bugs List for Beta 024, but I am aware that it is incomplete. I’m still busy organizing my scattered notes, and I will attempt to also update this post as I do that, but no promises on how promptly that will happen. (Which is to say, I’ll make sure Lee knows about the bugs, but I might not as regularly update this list.)

What I’d ask of you guys is to continue doing your excellent bug-hunting work and posting new topics in the forum, or replying to pre-existing topics to provide additional information, and then if you have time you can also post a response to this thread with a link to that topic and just a mention of what the bug is. I think that will make it easier to keep pertinent discussions together, rather than a mishmash of topics here or on Lee’s update thread, though of course I’ll be checking there for reports too.

Since this list doesn’t really include all known bugs (but I did want to post it before I turned into a pumpkin), please feel free to give a little prod and drop a link to older bug reports that are still relevant 024 and that aren’t mentioned here. Also please know that I tried to focus just on true bugs here, so wishlist or missing items aren’t represented at the moment. If any of the L&L team responded to a question about such a feature and said, “Yeah, it’s coming!” rest assured Lee’s got it in hand.

Thanks to all of you for all the feedback and detailed reports! You’re making this a fantastic program. :slight_smile:

[size=150]KNOWN BUGS for BETA 024[/size]
[size=85]updated June 13[/size]

[u]BINDER
[/u]
Binder icon not refreshed Search.indexes not updated properly Fixed

Dragging in binder difficult Dragging document in the binder and accurately placing them is extremely difficult and the highlights are confusing

Folder with synopsis icon This icon only displays when the folder has no subdocuments (subdocuments shouldn’t affect the container’s icon) Fixed

New docs should be “Untitled” New documents created in the binder should not have an empty title but be called “Untitled” with the text selected for immediate editing. Fixed

Split doc title incrementing Titles from a document split should always increment based on the whole list of same-title documents in the binder Fixed[b]
[/b]
Auto-numbering not available Edit>Insert>Auto-numbering isn’t available when the focus is in a document title Fixed[b]
[/b]
[u]COLLECTIONS
[/u]
Collections focus bug First item in the collection is loaded in the editor as soon as the user clicks on the collection tab; if the collection is empty, a “No Selection” loads Fixed[b]
[/b]
New collection only with selection Clicking the “+” button in the Collections header only creates a new collection if there is a selection in the binder; it should just create an empty collection when there is no selection Fixed

[u]COMPILE DRAFT
[/u]
Compile dialogue lingers Users may accidentally click “compile” twice and the second time results in an error Fixed[b]
[/b]
Compile to .doc/docx inconsistent Scrivener inconsistently requires Word to be installed to create a .doc/.docx file, even when Word is already installed

Meta-data not compiling Meta-data elements are not compiling[b]

Need Header & Page Numbers
[/b]
Checkmarks not remembered Checkmarks set in the content tab are not remembered Fixed[b]
[/b]
Right Indent Problem Indent issues in compiling to RTF

Compile to ODT error “Could not save the file” error resulting in a corrupted compiled document Partially fixed (erroneous error message fixed; can’t reproduce corrupted compile in 024; if anyone is getting this, I’d greatly appreciate a copy of the initial corrupted ODT file and the “repaired” version OpenOffice creates from it)[b]
[/b]
Overrides backward “As-is” should trump “override existing text and notes formatting” but it currently does not Fixed
[u]
DICTIONARY
[/u]
No check spelling in Scrivenings Check spelling while typing doesn’t work while in Scrivenings mode

Personal word list unrecognized Clicking “OK” or “Apply” in Options causes learned words to be unrecognized until you Learn a new word or modify the Personal Word List Fixed[b]
[/b]
Learned spelling incorrectly caught Second instances of words added via the “Show Spellings” dialogue aren’t recognized during the initial check in certain cases Fixed[b]
[/b]
Download dictionary crash Downloading dictionaries crashes Scrivener Fixed[b]
[/b]
Misspelling underline persists If you “Learn” a word, all instances of the word in that document remain underlined until you click/type in that paragraph or reload the document Fixed[b]
[/b]
Word list part of preferences Resetting the options to defaults wipes the personal word list Fixed

[u]EDITOR
[/u]
Undo Undo only undoes one letter at a time, with a limited stack Fixed[b]
[/b]
Focus moves to font menu When selecting from the font drop-down menu, the focus shifts there so the cursor is placed in the text box after selection instead of remaining in the editor Fixed[b]
[/b]
Converting formatting wipes images Using the Documents>Convert Formatting to Default Text Style option deletes inline images Fixed[b]
[/b]
Words don’t wrap properly Editor doesn’t always wrap the last word of a paragraph properly if invisibles are turned on Fixed[b]
[/b]
Copy Style doesn’t copy ruler Copy Style should copy paragraph attributes Fixed

TW mode jumps with cursor In Typewriter Mode, text jumps as soon as the cursor is placed in text; should wait for keyboard text input Fixed[b]
[/b]
Search affects locked editor If a multiple selection or container & subdocs are in an active locked editor, entering a search term temporarily displaces the session Fixed[b]
[/b]
Locked group view Lock isn’t respected on group views formed from a container Fixed[b]
[/b]
Links continue Typing after inserting a link causes the new text to also be linked Fixed[b]
[/b]
Annotation/Footnote causes text to disappear Toggling on Annotation or Footnote with no text selected causes all text in the editor to disappear until you begin typing Fixed[b]
[/b]
View mode not remembered Group and multiple selections don’t remember the view mode between sessions and revert to corkboard Fixed[b]
[/b]
[u]FULL SCREEN
[/u]
Keyboard shortcuts don’t work Not all keyboard shortcuts work in full screen mode

[u]IMPORT
[/u]
Importing doc Importing .doc/.docx (via Import or drag & drop) not working for all users

Can’t drag import into subfolder Not able to import into a Draft subfolder via drag and drop Fixed[b]
[/b]
Webpage non-ASCII chars Webpages with non-ASCII characters like smart quotes, ellipses, etc. that aren’t coded import with these characters displayed as gibberish Fixed[b]
[/b]
[u]INSPECTOR
[/u]
Label color in synopsis When label colors are not set to display on index cards, they still appear on the card in the inspector Fixed[b]
[/b]
Auto-generate synopsis inconsistent Auto-generate synopsis does not always apply all the selected text Fixed

Text dragged to index card lost Text dragged into the synopsis in the inspector appears for a moment and then disappears; it does not return to where it was dragged from, so unless the user realizes and returns to that field to hit “Undo”, it is permanently lost Fixed

Add Item crash if focus in inspect. synopsis Adding a new document or folder when the focus is in the synopsis field of the inspector causes a crash Fixed

[u]NAVIGATION
[/u]
Scrivener links deleted from references Not possible to have a document reference and a Scrivener Link to the same file Fixed[b]
[/b]
Dragged links deleted from references With certain triggers, links dragged to the reference pane may be unintentionally deleted Fixed

Open with All SubDocs not working Subdocuments don’t open

[u]OPTIONS
[/u]
Editor ruler too short The ruler in the Editor options maxes out at 5.1, so you can’t set the right indent any higher

Can’t drag right indent to “none” Dragging the right-indent marker all the way to the right in the Editor settings should reset it to “none” but instead sets it at 5.1" (or whatever the user’s units are)

Tab stops in Options don’t stick All tab stops set in Options:Editor reduce to a single tab stop at 1.1in

“Apply” doesn’t always work Clicking “Apply” after adjusting options doesn’t always display the change as it should

[u]OUTLINER
[/u]
Columns not remembered Every time the project is closed and reopened, the outliner columns reset; they should be remembered (per editor)

Total Word Count in Outliner Total word count doesn’t calculate correctly

[u]PDF
[/u]
PDF - Option for Adobe plug-in instead (This would work around the bug in the third-party PDF tool currently used which doesn’t display highlights correctly)

PDF copy text removes spaces Also no right-click options on PDFs in Scrivener

[u]PRINTING
[/u]
Page numbering

[u]PROJECT WINDOW
[/u]
Window size too large New projects’ windows are expanded to max screen size with the bottom hidden below the taskbar

[u]RTF
[/u]
Chinese import Importing certain extensions from Word with Chinese or mixed Chinese/English, Chinese does not show up

Right-to-left languages Punctuation not positioned correctly for right-to-left languages

Persistent formatting Carriage returns pick up formatting and apply it to the entire paragraph

Word and Margins Hanging indent from Word imports over the left edge of Scrivener’s margin; selecting this text causes a crash

Duplicate URL from Chrome URLs copied from the Omnibar in the Chrome browser get duplicated when pasted into the main document text in Scrivener

[u]SCRIPTWRITING
[/u]
Scripts start in general text Documents in script mode should begin with scene heading (or the appropriate first element), but they are always in general; Scrivener doesn’t recognize the elements in templates with lines prewritten

Unable to switch modes except in editor Only able to convert script/non-script modes if document is loaded in editor with focus in text; should be possible in binder, outliner, and corkboard for single selections

[u]SEARCH
[/u]
Find & Replace Jump to Word Clicking “next” should automatically jump to the next instance without the user needing to scroll

Find field should have focus When the Find/Replace is opened, the focus should move to the “Find” text field

Redundant “Text Not Found” At the end of a document if you choose not to restart at the beginning you get an extra “Text Not found” dialogue

[u]TEMPLATES
[/u]
“Misc.” user templates don’t display User-created templates created for the “Miscellaneous” category do not display in the template chooser

[u]WINDOWS - LINUX GENERAL
[/u]
Open on another machine

CTRL+ALT Shortcuts Fixed

Project Not Compatible

Title stability Clicking out of the titled editing field in the binder should not delete the title

Text field crash Closing the project while the focus is in a text field causes a crash Fixed[b]
[/b]
Show invisibles per-document Show invisibles should apply to the entire project and be remembered between sessions

Hang on viewing Scrivenings Attempting a Scrivenings session on the full draft of a large project hangs Scrivener

Undo after merge deletes text Focusing in the editor after a merge and clicking “Undo” deletes the text; should have no effect (Use “Redo” (Ctrl-Y) to restore the text)

Projects opening with “No Selection” The first time a project is opened in 024, it loads with “No Selection”

Hang on startup Scrivener hangs on launch if you click too quickly too many times on the shortcut Fixed

2

The disappearing text effect described in this thread still happens. As Lee pointed out in another post, Ctrl+Y brings the text back but vanishing text still counts as a bug in my opinion.

By the way, (as I’ve just described in this thread) when I wrote this post in Scrivener and pasted in the URL for the old post, using Ctrl+V (or from the menu), it gets pasted in twice. Seems to happen with any URL but not normal text.

3

[BUG] Compiling to ODT Error [Beta 023] still happens in Beta 024. (When compiling to ODT, Scrivener freaks out, says it can’t do it, and then you have to repair the corrupted file in order to get your project in ODT … there’s screenshots … )

4

Dictionary bug in 024 here.

5

Thanks for the reports and links. I’ve updated the list in the initial post.

ADDED:
Split doc title incrementing
Auto-numbering not available in titles
Compile to ODT error
Personal word list not recognized
Learned spelling incorrectly caught
Misspelling underline persists
Links continue into following text
Annotation/Footnote causes text to disappear
Some Keyboard shortcuts don’t work (in Full Screen)
Webpage non-ASCII chars render as gibberish on import
Right indent can’t be dragged to “none” in Options
Tab stops don’t stick in Options
Duplicate URL from Chrome when pasting into the main doc text
Hang on viewing Scrivenings for full Draft of large projects
Undo after merge deletes text
Projects opening with “No Selection”

6

This is more of a point for consistency than a bug:

https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/a-point-for-consistency/12806/1

(I hope this is how to post a link to my other post, I saw no other option.) Thanks, Lunarcipper

7

I can make Scrivener (Beta 024) hang on start up. Here is the link to the post I just made: https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/i-can-make-scrivener-hang-on-startup/12821/1
I hope this helps, Lunarclipper.

8

Screeplay mode is not consistently respecting bold formatting. I reported this bug here:

https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/bug-report-screen-play-mode-not-respecting-bold-formatting/12426/1

Also, when Scriviner launches firefox when I want to go to a link in Sriviner, it launches Firefox wrong.

For example, when I store a link to:

https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/bug-report-screen-play-mode-not-respecting-bold-formatting/12426/1

Scrivener launches it as:

http.com//www.literatureandl … 212#p94212

Basicaly, its ading a extra http.com

9

Here are a couple more that I don’t see on the list yet:

Italics, bold, and highlighting spread unpredictably:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=13001&p=95291&hilit=italics#p95291

PDFs in landscape format do not import/display correctly in Scrivener:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=12894&p=95455&hilit=landscape+pdf#p95455

Thanks!

10

It being a Monday yesterday, I posted this to the main bug thread instead of here where you asked. Though I thought I posted here :wink:.

Anyway, I dug into this long-running bug, and think I may have found how it continues, as if Wordpad is being used for testing, it’s going to be looking right to you. However, with Word, OneNote, or other programs copy-pasted to, things aren’t right yet, but easily fixed am sure.

Thus…

Misformatting in Copy and Paste from Scrivener in Rich Text:

  • If you copy and paste to a program which accepts Text Only format by default, text from Scriveners looks right. in particular, there’s an extra line break to properly separate paragraphs.

  • however, if you copy and paste to a program which prefers Rich Text, like Microsoft Word or OneNote, you get no formatted paragraph situation: the paragraphs all run together as if they had no separating line break.

  • if you use the clipboard-icon choice after pasting to set Text Only, then you get a line break, but neither of the formatted options work, which is a clue, since one of them is to format as the destination rather than as the source.

  • further, Wordpad, which perhaps is being used for testing, gives wrong results. It adds two element of spacing by default, one for the paragraph itself, and one for the extra line break between . This leads to a very wide paragraph spacing, which may be tricking development into taking out the extra line feed to make Wordpad ‘look right’. But note that Wordpad makes this same mistake on text copy-pasted from a web page, for example. It’s not a reference.

===

My suggestion is that Rich Text clipboard format should supply two thing properly:

  • it should present the proper original number of line feeds, including the extra one that makes paragraphs separated in default Scrivener. Most people type this way, as on a typewriter, rather than using a Paragraph Formatting to separate paragraphs. In other words, don’t modify whatever someone typed into Scrivener.

  • Pass the Scrivener-set formatting to include any additional paragraph line spacing.

  • This combination will cover all cases properly, whether a person has set an extra spacing or not; and whether they use two line feeds to separate paragraphs or not.

  • leave the Plain Text clipboard format alone - it’s fine.

  • now pasted text in rich text programs will have the proper choices available: source, destination, or plain text formatting.

That should get things right. Wordpad is a special case, at least in Windows 7; along with a remarkably badly designed ‘ribbon’ to confuse things, along with no apparent preferences, there is a very odd setting on the Line Spacing, if you can find it. It both sets a 1.25 line height separation (reasonably normal), and then also sets an ‘add 10 pt. space after paragraphs’ by default, which is highly non-normal. I would ignore it as a target.

Oh yes, one more minor thing which would be nice to have. Could the Backup dialog remember the checkbox setting for Zip or not? Thanks

Best on a Monday, and nice to see how things are proceeding,
Clive

11

Clive - My fault, actually. You did post here, but I moved it and another post describing a bug out to their own threads so that I could keep related discussion organized together, but then apparently I didn’t post my response explaining that I’d done that. Sorry about that. So the link is here, and I’ve replied over there; if you have any other discoveries to add on the topic, I’d appreciate it if you could reply in that thread, as it will make it easier for me to find when I’m working through specific bugs. Thanks also for bringing this to my attention with such a detailed report.

Laura - The italics, bold, and highlight spreading is part of the persistent formatting bug, so that is known and on the list, never fear. For the landscape PDFs, I’ll make sure it’s on the list, but at the moment I haven’t been able to reproduce the error, so if you have any more info on that it’d be great if you could post it in that thread (I added a reply there as well). Thanks!

12

Mouton, thanks for letting me know – must have misunderstood or principles-of-reporting have changed now that you’re officially on the case, and I am sure being a great help to Lee & Co. in getting things winnowed, identified, and compactly listed.

p.s. I just like ‘Mouton’ - deliciously French, and in sound. Alan Furst had a character I think he called Brebis, I think - similar idea.

Best,
Clive

13

Could you explain how you’re adding the link? If you select text and choose “Add Link…” and paste the entire url into the field, including the , you want to switch the radio button to “No prefix”–if you leave it as “web” it will add the “http://” as shown before the text box, which then does result in an invalid url.

I’ve also logged the script formatting report (and posted a reply in that thread); thank you!

Clive - No problem! I did change things up a bit when I usurped the Bug Hunting thread; I know Lee did used to ask to have things all reported directly in his one thread, as it was easier for him to follow. For myself though, and I think maybe for other users, it’s been significantly easier to keep reports grouped by topic so that I don’t lose the follow-up in a series of other posts. It is nice to have a link in this thread to the post that goes into more detail, although it’s not necessary; that’s mostly again so other people checking out the known bugs list can keep up to date on what others are reporting. (Since I’m not doing a swell job keeping the list updated…heh.) On which note, all the bugs reported here since my last update on the list have all been logged.

J’aime les moutons, moi aussi. :wink:

14

Hi Lee

Nice update.

I noticed that the font selection description field at the top of the script editor is editable. I would have thought this should be a read-only pulldown.

Apologies if this is noted elsewhere…

Do you have a proposed cost on the production release version of Scrivener when it becomes available?

Cheers

Rob

15

Hello all,

It’s been a while since an update on how things are going in the depths of Lee’s Scrivener-coding lair, and I imagine that, patient as you all are, you’re probably itching for a hint that progress is actually happening. I just got back from a couple weeks away myself and went through the list of fixes and improvements Lee built up while I was gone. So thoroughly impressive is it that I cannot just mysteriously hint that the gears are grinding, but I will share a sample with you. Mostly this list addresses bugs (after I’ve slept off this tendency toward verbosity, I’ll also mark them so in the initial post of this thread), but Lee’s also continued with a slew of interface improvements as well as a few additional features (e.g. further options for Find by Formatting, alternative displays for media files on the corkboard, and easy Find Next/Previous controls for project search).

Of course what you really want is to hear from Lee himself, but I hope that until he’s able to emerge into daylight again, this offering will soothe your souls. The next update will be out before the end of the month, and I’m sure Lee will have some words then if not before. Thanks again to all of you for your continued feedback, bug reports, and support to one another as well as the encouraging words for the L&L team!

BUG FIXES COMING IN BETA 025
(This is just a list of the reports that have been fixed; additional comments in colored text following the report when necessary.)

Binder icon not refreshed Search.indexes not updated properly

Folder with synopsis icon This icon only displays when the folder has no subdocuments (subdocuments shouldn’t affect the container’s icon)

New docs should be “Untitled” New documents created in the binder should not have an empty title but be called “Untitled” with the text selected for immediate editing.

Split doc title incrementing Titles from a document split should always increment based on the whole list of same-title documents in the binder

Auto-numbering not available Edit>Insert>Auto-numbering isn’t available when the focus is in a document title

Collections focus bug First item in the collection is loaded in the editor as soon as the user clicks on the collection tab; if the collection is empty, a “No Selection” loads. (Clicking the collection tab should not replace text in the editor.)

New collection only with selection Clicking the “+” button in the Collections header only creates a new collection if there is a selection in the binder; it should just create an empty collection when there is no selection

Chapter headings not padded Novel template includes padding in the About/sample which doesn’t show in compile (Code is fixed; templates themselves still need to be updated)

Checkmarks not remembered Checkmarks set in the content tab are not remembered

Compile dialogue lingers Users may accidentally click “compile” twice and the second time results in an error.

Compile to ODT error “Could not save the file” error resulting in a corrupted compiled document (Partially fixed: Scrivener no longer throws an erroneous “could not compile” error, but so far we haven’t reproduced the corrupt document with beta 024; if anyone does, I’d very much appreciate a sample of the corrupt ODT document and of the repaired version OpenOffice creates from it)

Overrides backward “As-is” should trump “override existing text and notes formatting” but it currently does not

Personal word list unrecognized Clicking “OK” or “Apply” in Options causes learned words to be unrecognized until you Learn a new word or modify the Personal Word List

Learned spelling incorrectly caught Second instances of words added via the “Show Spellings” dialogue aren’t recognized during the initial check in certain cases

Download dictionary crash Downloading dictionaries crashes Scrivener

Misspelling underline persists If you “Learn” a word, all instances of the word in that document remain underlined until you click/type in that paragraph or reload the document

Word list part of preferences Resetting the options to defaults wipes the personal word list

Undo Undo only undoes one letter at a time, with a limited stack

Focus moves to font menu When selecting from the font drop-down menu, the focus shifts there so the cursor is placed in the text box after selection instead of remaining in the editor

Converting formatting wipes images Using the Documents>Convert Formatting to Default Text Style option deletes inline images

Words don’t wrap properly Editor doesn’t always wrap the last word of a paragraph properly if invisibles are turned on.

Copy Style doesn’t copy ruler Copy Style should copy paragraph attributes

TW mode jumps with cursor In Typewriter Mode, text jumps as soon as the cursor is placed in text; should wait for keyboard text input

Search affects locked editor If a multiple selection or container & subdocs are in an active locked editor, entering a search term temporarily displaces the session

Locked group view Lock isn’t respected on group views formed from a container.

Links continue Typing after inserting a link causes the new text to also be linked

Annotation/Footnote causes text to disappear Toggling on Annotation or Footnote with no text selected causes all text in the editor to disappear until you begin typing

View mode not remembered Non-single-doc selections don’t remember the view mode between sessions and revert to corkboard

Can’t drag import into subfolder Not able to import into a Draft subfolder via drag and drop

Webpage non-ASCII chars Webpages with non-ASCII characters like smart quotes, ellipses, etc. that aren’t coded import with these characters displayed as gibberish

Label color in synopsis When label colors are not set to display on index cards, they still appear on the card in the inspector

Auto-generate synopsis inconsistent Auto-generate synopsis does not always apply all the selected text

Text dragged to index card lost Text dragged into the synopsis in the inspector appears for a moment and then disappears; it does not return to where it was dragged from, so unless the user realizes and returns to that field to hit “Undo”, it is permanently lost

Add Item crash if focus in inspect. synopsis Adding a new document or folder when the focus is in the synopsis field of the inspector causes a crash (Should also fix the identical crash when working in the corkboard; double-checking on that)

Scrivener links deleted from references Not possible to have a document reference and a Scrivener Link to the same file (references are deleted from Doc Ref list)

Dragged links deleted from references With certain triggers, links dragged to the reference pane may be unintentionally deleted

Tables Extensive work has gone into improvements and bug fixes for tables, including menu items for inserting, merging, splitting, and deleting rows and columns (and the entire table); fixed column widths; tabbing between cells; and background color implementation across cells.

CTRL+ALT Shortcuts Shortcuts have been significantly reworked to remove the Alt key modifier as well as adding many additional shortcuts.

Text field crash Closing the project while the focus is in a text field causes a crash

Hang on startup Scrivener hangs on launch if you click too quickly too many times on the shortcut

16

So Beta 025 isn’t available yet, correct? (just checking, Scrivener still says it is all up to date when I click “check for update”)

17

Right, Beta 025 hasn’t been released yet. It’ll be out closer to the end of the month with as many fixes as possible.

18

I had a quick check to see if this had been reported - not sure. Just a bug, not something that I personally desperately need correcting right now.
I have pasted citations directly from Zotero (Create bibliography > copy to clipboard) into the individual “reference” field in the “references” section of the Inspector, and I find they don’t wordwrap, they just continue to the right, off the screen. This makes them difficult to read and impossible to select.

19

This isn’t entirely a bug, though it’s true that when you’ve clicked in the text field to edit it, you should be able to move from beginning to end of the line and see it all, whereas now if the end gets cut off it appears you can’t keep hitting the arrow key to make the last part visible. So that should be corrected. To just view it, you can scroll horizontally to read the text when you’re not editing it. You should still be able to select the text by using Ctrl-A to select all and the copy, and double-clicking the icon should load the reference as usual, assuming that there’s a file path–I’m not clear from your description if it’s really a reference to a file or just a text citation you’ve pasted in.

If it’s the latter, you might try using the Document Notes section to hold this instead, since the References are a form table and don’t wrap, meant more for linking to individual files. This is if they’re for your own private reference. If the citations are meant to appear in your work, you’ll want to insert them as footnotes or create another binder document to hold them so they can be compiled with your text. With the new document route, you can also create a link to that Scrivener document from the original text’s document references, so you can load the citation page in the split editor, which may work best for you.

20

MM Thanks for that reply. I think you have largely understood the problem. Hard to get to the ends.
Just for clarification, yes it was just citations, but I put them there not because they were in text citations but because I wanted a reminder to refer to them, and the documents notes were already full of actual notes and I would have had to scroll through a long way to find the citations. Plus it does category separation. I have already tried creating other binder docs as biblio compilations of refs I might want to use, but the refs window is visible all the time in the doc while unless you split the screen, the binder ref doc is not. My screen real estate is tiny so I tend not to use split screens.
It would be nice to have some technologically primitive area in refs where you could just paste stuff, or a tab underneath that would pop up if you clicked on it for that, or some thing similar.