Scrivener Data Integrity

Hi, I am not yet subscribed to Scrivener due to all the reports of lost or corrupt data.
I would be mortified if I lost some of my work!

So my question, is Scrivener a safe repository for my work?
I will be using a MacBook and iCloud.
What exactly must I do to ensure no data loss or corruption.

This is my biggest concern that prevents me moving forward.

I have watched various online videos about some of the issues surrounding Scrivener and iCloud, but others report loosing data just by opening a file after an update etc.
The information that’s available is sometimes spread over numerous years and versions.

What is the current situation exactly?

Thanks in advance for any replies

Chris

Why do you need Apple’s iCloud?

If not needed, then keep the project local not in any cloud synced folder, and backup local. Keep auto save on inactivity at default 2 sec. Keep automatic backups. Backup entire machine with Time Machine or equivalent. System crash more likely than Scrivener data loss. All bets off if using cloud services for no good reason and is misconfigured causing cloud service—not Scrivener—to lose or corrupt data. No need to use any cloud service unless a reason.

In more than a decade of use i have never lost data. The reports here are often from people who mis-use cloud sync thinking they are reliable and/or good for backups.

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Yes, ditto @rms. No issues forever.

As it happens, I sync via iCloud without problems.

What exactly must I do to ensure no data loss or corruption.

Same as you do for all other data. There’s nothing exceptional about Scrivener in that regard. Indeed, Scrivener creates its own backups, so provides you with added protection.

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If you use a cloud service, ensure that it is configured to make all Scrivener projects “available offline.” Incomplete synchronization is by far the most common cause of missing data.

Read our article on best practices for using Scrivener with cloud services:
https://scrivener.tenderapp.com/help/kb/cloud-syncing/using-scrivener-with-cloud-sync-services

Check Scrivener’s automatic backup settings to make sure they match the way you work. If Scrivener stays open for days at a time, an automatic backup that only runs when Scrivener closes won’t help much. Do not rely on a synchronization service as your only backup.

Have at least one backup that is under your exclusive control. If you’re a Mac user, configure a Time Machine Drive.

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I intentionally crashed Scrivener (with a test project) many, many times. That’s not easy because Scrivener (mac) doesn’t actually crash. Anyway, I’ve never lost a word. I don’t think I’m an exception. :slightly_smiling_face:

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What ‘all reports’? There have been a very small number of people claiming to have lost data and from what I see the overwhelming majority are due to users not following basic rules of data protection that apply regardless of the app you use.

L&L have provided detailed information on how to use cloud services, yet we still see people ignoring that advice.

If you consider there are over 33,000 members of this forum (and how many 10’s of thousands of Scrivener users not on here?) and there’s 10-20 people a year complaining of data loss that is most often traced to user action/inaction, that’s insignificant statistically (thought still devastating for the user)

If you follow the basic rules for using cloud services as outlined by L&L and have the minimum data backup in place there is almost no risk of losing work. I say almost because sometimes sh.t happens regardless of what app and what processes you have in place.

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Hi. Thank you for taking time to answer my request.

The reason I would like to use icloud is simply that it should add a layer of protection and not pose a risk.
It’s sort of akin to being an offsite copy but also for convenience that I can read my work (pdf export) in the middle of the night or wherever I am. Inspiration does not work to a schedule.
I can make notes in apple notes to append later.

Hi, thank you for your informative reply.
Could you please outline your process for working with iCloud effectively. Thank you

Thank you for the info and link.

Music to my ears. Thank you

Hi. Thanks for your reply.
To answer your question.
What all reports?
I refer to many, many reviews of the current selection of writing apps that I have watched.
Scrivener is the only one that I encountered repeated and varied reports, warnings, and such.
Some reviewer’s hypothesise that it is iCloud’s fault and Dropbox works fine.
Others report issues after updates.
A selection of conflicting reports which all advocated caution and alarm.
Hence my apprehension.
The responses above have alleviated much of my concerns so I will invest some time with the 30 day trial to learn and get to know scrivener. Time is always in short supply so it’s best to invest in the right place.
:+1:t2:

I think you may find using iCloud with Scrivener may add a lot of risk, especially if used wrongly or without purpose. IMHO. I urge you to do it with purpose and correctness.

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To put in my ½p worth:

I have been using Scrivener for 18 years working between two machines much of that time, also collaborating with Windows- and Mac-users.

In that time, I have used Dropbox, Cubby, Sync, SpiderOak and Box.

  • Quite a long time ago, I had a look at iCloud for my own projects, but found that (a) it was slow and inconsistent at sync’ing, and (b) without having the folder open and in view, I couldn’t tell when all was in sync.
  • Dropbox and Sync, both have menu-bar icons that indicate when sync’ing is in progress and complete.
  • Over the last year or so, Sync have changed the underlying engine, and it now throws up more conflicts. They are easily resolved; I suspect it is something to do with versioning on the server.
  • I’ve only checked that current versions of Box work with Scrivener projects (for a long time it didn’t), but I don’t actually use it for that purpose.
  • The (very) late-lamented Cubby was the best of them.
  • SpiderOak I only used for a very short time before Cubby came on the scene, because Dropbox was blocked in China and that was the only one I could find at the time. Very secure, but I kept running out of space and had to clear versions on a frequent basis.

In all of that, neither I nor any of my collaborators have ever lost any data. Apart from the current Sync situation, the comparatively few conflicted files we have had, or user.lock not being deleted on the server, have entirely been due to pilot error in not allowing sync to complete before shutting down or opening a project. And that is why Dropbox or Sync are better than iCloud, in that sync status is immediately visible in the menu-bar.

:slight_smile:
Mark

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This was true a few years back. Finder now indicates when the iCloud drive is sync’d or shows what isn’t. It even tells you when the last sync occurred, if you click on the wee icon. Given how parsimonious Apple is wrt exposing users to scary data, I’m surprised they’ve done this much. But my experience is that iCloud works fine these days.

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I know it has improved, though I still find it fairly slow to sync stuff from other apps between computers. And you still have to open a finder window to see the “wee icon” to click on, where Dropbox, Sync and Box show the status in the menu bar, and in the case of the first two the dropdown shows the recent sync history. Also, when collaborating, Sync can give you notifications of changes on the server as your collaborator is working and Scrivener saves changes.

I just find all that much more convenient with Scrivener. Most of my other apps store stuff in iCloud folders by default.

:slight_smile:
Mark

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Thank you so much for your very thoughtful and thorough reply.
Much appreciated :pray:

Something that Mark failed to mention about Sync is that the paid version* has a thing called the “Vault”. This is a section of the drive in which you can transfer files from the sync repository and keep them as a longer term backup.

It is a bit of a faff to transfer files since you have to login via a browser. However, if you are paranoid about backups, it is a useful feature.

  • Not sure about the free version, but 5Gb would not allow you to store many files for the long term.
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‘many, many reviews’. Seriously, how many reviews?

The moment a reviewer ‘hypothesizes’ (aka wild guessing), I discount anything that follows. I’ve lost count of the number of BS ‘reviews’ of apps etc I’ve seen on the internet that get taken as gospel despite being readily debunked. With the arrival of AI, that number is increasing at an obscene rate.

Yes, there is ample warning about using cloud services, but that really focusses on using common sense, and understanding that not all cloud services conduct themselves in a faultless manner, especially if you throw in a little user carelessness.

The L&L resources on syncing set you up for safe syncing, with the caveat that any time you send your data out over an external connection there is a small chance of corruption, regardless of the app in play. Again, L&L staff here have consistently advocated for comprehensive backups that don’t rely on syncing and the potential for corruption over time when you sync any data. (you accidentally delete something and sync, that sync is going to result in the deletion being at very location synced to.

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Yes, seriously.
I spent a lot of time watching YouTube reviews and reading on review sites.
Hence my cautious approach and my desire to ask the questions that needed asking… at source.
I’m not here to ruffle feathers.
But yours seam ruffled.
The comments and responses I have received have abated my concerns.
They address the facts and the current state of affairs, putting things into perspective.
I seek clarifications by asking questions, not by blindly continuing.
I have received some very positive replies on this thread and I’m sure they will help other newcomers to this software in the future as well.

I’ve noticed on the Ulysses sub Reddit, some users are complaining about their files going missing.

Just in case you think data loss is unique to Scrivener.

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