Look: There seem to be a whole gaggle of Scrivener users all ready-and-set to jump all over any of us that express the slightest negative comment about the long-delayed release of Scrivener 3.0 for Windows. Whatâs with that? I didnât attack L&L and hold no hard feelings toward them; I know theyâre doing what they need to do to get the product out. I donât use a Mac and I am very-much looking forward to the official release of Scrivener 3.0 for Windows.
When I was a kid, my mother used to try to argue me out of feeling a certain way using logic. I always hated that because while the logic might have been sound I still felt the way I felt. There was a complete lack of acknowledgement or understanding of the way I felt - it was simply dismissed in a shower of logic. So while I love the fact that there are so many loyal Scrivener users out there (and I am one of them) ready to defend L&L against any detractors (I am not one of them), thereâs no amount of logic thatâs going to rationalize, for me, the long-long-long delayed release of Scrivener 3.0 for Windows. I am disheartened, bummed, and frustrated by this delay. Period. You may disagree with me and thatâs perfectly fine and I respect that - just stop telling me I should feel a different way about it.
Here are two unarguable facts:
(1) Scrivener 3.0 for Mac was first release over three years ago, July 2016 (that might be inaccurate - best date I could find).
(2) Scrivener 3.0 for Windows has not been released as of November 2019.
Maybe the point your mother was trying to make wasnât to stop you from feeling the way you did, but for you to stop expressing it in a loud voice? At least thatâs basically what happens in here. There are logical reasons for why the Win version 3 hasnât been officialy released, so whatâs the point in telling the whole world you feel disheartened, bummed and frustrated? Does posting in here make you feel less frustrated and more content with the situation?
Seriously, dude - go back, read Amberâs post, and stop taking jabs at people and telling them they shouldnât be telling L&L how they feel about the continued, constant delays of WinV3. This guy wasnât being rude at all, but you, as usual, are.
Yes, frustrated people: do not voice your frustrations here, because forum cop lunk and others will make sure they pop in to tell you why you should not be posting.
And you wonder why people donât explore the forums more after they land here.
It seems like they keep pushing out the release date of Scrivener 3 for Windows because they want to make sure they hammer out ANY AND ALL of the bugs. The most recent update post of its development stated this. This is a foolâs errand in my opinion. You canât possibly create a âperfectâ piece of software. No software is like that. If Microsoft or Adobe had that stubborn philosophy in developing their software, they would have gone bankrupt a long time ago. But even more important is the observation that if they keep fixing bugs, waiting for a perfect software for release, theyâll never release it, for new bugs will always pop up. Just look at the beta testing subforum; bugs are being reported all the time! I would suggest that they just release Scrivener 3 for Windows now and then hammer out the smaller bugs in incremental updates.
Perhaps you are mis-interpreting or not clearly understanding what they said?
I donât recall anywhere that L&L said they are trying to be bug-free; however, there are still pieces of functionality missing in the Windows beta that should be there before release (although those gaps are closing all the time). At the same time, there are bugs they have already stated will not be able to be fixed until after the release, so they are clearly perform triage of bug severity vs. complexity to fix and addressing the ones that they can that they know would raise large numbers of support queries.
No. It does not. It seems like they keep pushing he release date out because they want Scrivener 3 for Windows to be feature complete, which it at present is not.
There is no indication what so ever that they are trying to âhammer out ANY AND ALL of the bugsâ. On the contrary, triage is being done, and severe bugs are addressed while functionality is being added to bring the software to feature complete.
No. It did not.
Itâs frustrating that Scrivener 3 for Windows is not done. Itâs even more frustrating that there is no Linux version which works with the iOS format of Scrivener projects. But making up deficits in the programmerâs approach is not really helping anyone. Theyâve got a rather thankless job replicating functionality which MacOS includes, but which Windows does not include since that would make it too easy to compete with Microsoft Office.
Iâve ignored this flame war so far but this post needs to be addressed.
Wrong. It is possible, itâs just that nobody seems to want to take the time and trouble to do so.
Iâm afraid you lose credibility by using as examples two of the worst software producers on the planet. Each of them routinely releases new versions with the full knowledge that it has major bugs and vulnerabilities. And I dare say that we would all be better off if they did indeed go bankrupt and allow better software companies a chance to flourish.
Again, wrong. Theyâre not new bugs that somehow magically just âpop upâ, theyâre merely bugs that had not previously been detected.
Perhaps I should give you the benefit of doubt, as it would appear youâre not a programmer, nor have ever had any direct exposure to the software industry. I just find it hard to ignore people pushing this kind of nonsense, which is every bit as ludicrous as that which the OP is pushing.
Perhaps you should not admonish someone for not being a programmer if youâre not willing to acknowledge the fact that bug regressions (bugs that were previously fixed, but a later fix re-introduces the old flawed behavior) and new bugs commonly get introduced as the result of bug fixes. Both happen all the time, and both are the result of the same thing: software engineering and design, like all engineering disciplines, are the product of the art of compromise. All non-trivial software contains bugs; the question is what is their scope vs. impact. If you have a rare bug that is basically an annoyance, that is unlikely to get fixed. Even the Apollo and Space Shuttle software programs, which were developed under some of the most rigorous development and testing regimes known to man, had bugs. Itâs just that the potential impacts were so severe, NASA spent the money on hella good testing and caught almost all of them.
What does this mean? Do you think they are going to add additional features to the Windows version that donât currently exist in the beta (for instance, linguistic/dialogue focus, currently in the Mac version)?
Based on the recent beta updates, it seems more like they are trying to fix existing bugsânot introduce new features. (And that seems smart, because while Iâm sure weâd all love additional features, I personally would love an official release more. Additional features can always be rolled out later.)
Last I knew, for example, not all of the functionality of the Compiler (as compared to the Mac 3.0 release) was yet wired into place, even though the UI had already been created. Each release has included more notes describing additional functionality that is now there.
It means that things like opening and saving files from Mac and iOS projects need to work 100%, and that things like compile are working completely. Right now it appears that compile, for example, has more than just bugs and actually chunks missing under the hood. But that is an observation from the results, not inside knowledge of how the code looks.
No. The features I am talking about are the really truly basic things expected - and required - from a Windows Scrivener 3. It is a very hard requirement that compatibility between Scrivener running on different platforms is high, and especially that basic things like opening and saving file and compiling works. Without those, collaboration will be incredibly difficult, and that will be a showstopper for just about any professional use of the software.
For most people who do not care about those things, and only work alone, or between iOS and Windows, the Beta seems to already be doing well. I expect it is also rather good at working with the Mac version, though I have not been able to test that myself yet. But compile is definitely not there yet. Again, for me that doesnât matter much, I do not use Scrivenerâs compile other than as an intermediate step (getting a markdown file), so for me it works. But I can see why itâs nowhere near enough for professional level use.
Trust me, Windows has always been and will ALWAYS be a second class citizen to this company. No matter the dialogue and fanboi defenses for this nonsense in the pages of responses, youâll find that this is true for the entire time that Scrivener for Windows has been out. The features always lag, and the support will always be lagging behind issues and innovation on the Mac. You do NOT need to take my word, any research into this will show you that it is true and has always been the case.
LL will give you lots of lip service about how important the Windows version is but, look at their actions NOT their words.
This also reminds me of the exact same type of issue with the iOS app. For the longest time they maintained there was no point to an iPad version of Scrivener, and then they said it was too hard to develop one, then they failed so badly with the first attempt to develop Scrivener for the iPad that they had to completely scrap it, and tagged on another year or two of delay and talk about how itâll comeâŠ
Bottom line is, fortunately for us Windows users there are now open-source free alternatives to Scrivener including Manuskript, Quoll Writer, and Wavemaker. There are more than that, but those are notable free ones. Other paid and freemium competitors have arisen as well.
I am STILL a Scrivener user but am looking to transition over to Manuskript. However, because Iâve been working in Scrivener so long Iâm still there due to sunk cost until I finish the current novel. At that point, though Iâm movingâthe clear message to Windows users that theyâre not a priority for LL as evidenced by failing for the umpteenth year to have parity with Mac is clear. Years ago when there was nothing like Scrivener available Iâd have stuck with it. Nowâthanks for making up my mind LL!
Again, donât take my word for it, truly look over the years for saying âcustomers donât know anything weâll do what we want and youâll like itâ with regards to both iOS IPad Scrivener and Windows versions. Opinions are just that but the facts and their track record wonât go away. Iâve paid for and used extensively the Mac Version, Windows Version, and the iPad version of Scrivener. The charge to move up to 3 will be the break from this company that Iâve been putting off for a long timeâhopefully in another few years theyâll change their ways or get bought out and run with a customer focus instead of an âour way or the highwayâ style theyâve always used.
Manuskript looks very very ⊠familiar . Interesting to note that it has been in beta/development for almost 4 years. Making software like that must be difficult!
Yes, there are plenty of similar programs out there these days. Most (all?) of them focus on only one very narrow aspect of writing, like novelsâScrivener remains one of the few that strives to be a general purpose writing platform. If you find one that fits how you write and isnât as anger-stimulating for you as our way of doing things is, then go for it!
As for actions, if someone like me who normally works exclusively in Mac space has spent the past 3/4s of this year almost entirely working with the Windows team is âlip serviceâ and not âactionâ then I suppose I can see why youâre so angry. Iâd be angry, if I knew I was going about it so wrong.
P.S. Since it has been a few pages back now (and thus doesnât exist), this is probably a good point to remind everyone about the thread rules here: donât attack the writer, debate the ideasâor just ignore it. Not every angry post needs a retort. We can take criticism just fine.
. Interesting to note that it has been in beta/development for almost 4 years. Making software like that must be difficult!